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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Tuesday, 25th September, 2018, 04:11 AM
    YES.
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Tuesday, 25th September, 2018, 04:08 AM
    They did take the back way in and did 88 points of damage before the first bad guy got to go for the round and then he was engaged with multiple enemies. However, Not till your post did I go look up Plan Shift and was surprised to see it has a casting time of one action. This is where I went wrong. I could have indeed used that to let him escape and not destroyed the party. I didn't realize...
    77 replies | 2956 view(s)
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Monday, 24th September, 2018, 10:53 PM
    The encounter is bad. It's not the first time D&D made a bad encounter and it isnt THAT big a deal. I was just shocked that the online reaction to it seems to be"Doesn't matter what the rules of the game are just do what you want" when it comes to saving the party. Also no the foe isn't telegraphed in any way.The pc's don't find out about him until they see him but yes he is indeed...
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Monday, 24th September, 2018, 08:36 PM
    Welcome to D&D 5E! The edition where they flattened the math so that lower level monsters and pc's could still threaten higher level targets. The bad guy just is not hard to beat. Low AC and although he has a lot of hit points verse 1st level characters, not enough to hang for more than one round without the very real possibility to death. The reason the guy is the CR he has is the abilities...
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Monday, 24th September, 2018, 06:21 PM
    Game night isn't Till Thursday so we will see. The default game play of this group has been forged in Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Storm Kings Thunder ect...mostly they expect to be set in a direction and to encounter foes and defeat them and take there stuff.
    77 replies | 2956 view(s)
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Monday, 24th September, 2018, 05:59 PM
    The Fact of the matter is you do not put a foe 7 CR's higher against the party and expect everything to be fine. Not at level 1 at any rate. Yes the foe wasn't trying to kill the monster but you cant say the same for the other way around! It's just bad design.
    77 replies | 2956 view(s)
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Monday, 24th September, 2018, 05:56 PM
    I didn't change anything. The NPC didn't get a chance to do anything before his options were VERY limited. It was face a very real possibility for death from unknown forces trying to escape without using any abilities(They took him down almost 30 hit points before he even got to go) or use his main go to power that had every chance of if not killing the foes then at least taking them out of the...
    77 replies | 2956 view(s)
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Friday, 21st September, 2018, 10:12 AM
    While I do see some value in the "not everyone is beatable" type lesson. I just do not see a lot of value on forcing a wildly unbalanced encounter on the party with a survival criteria that the party doesn't know. For instance is it BAD that a party would try to stop a villain trying to get away? That seems counter intuitive. Bad guys seek to escape and heroes bring them to justice. For...
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Friday, 21st September, 2018, 06:07 AM
    Well, im just saying the adventure puts a much much much higher CR enemy in front of the party. Yes the enemy is trying to flee but its fairly easy for the party to close off his escape (actually the more deadly the party is the greater the chance of a TPK). It's like reverse Darwinism!
    77 replies | 2956 view(s)
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  • GameOgre's Avatar
    Friday, 21st September, 2018, 04:00 AM
    GameOgre started a thread Dragon Heist TPK
    We had several close calls even though 90% of the encounters were easy until the first real major boss. Don't know how to hide spoilers so lets just say it was a major bad guy who was WAY over the pc's level 1 ability and even though he tried to (get away) the party forced him into a fight and he destroyed the entire party in six seconds. One round and done,TPK. Like ok I realize not everyone...
    77 replies | 2956 view(s)
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Wednesday, 26th September, 2018


Tuesday, 25th September, 2018


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Tuesday, 18th September, 2018


Monday, 2nd April, 2018

  • 07:44 PM - Quickleaf mentioned GameOgre in post Why I dislike Milestone XP
    GameOgre Which ever way you choose, I've never seen a XP or leveling system presented in any edition of D&D that we used "out of the box." It's same same but different. With XP in 5e, there are precious little guidelines for XP from anything besides defeating monsters. If you really want to encourage player exploration & creativity, then you need to devise your own guidelines. With milestone leveling in 5e, the guidelines in the hardcover adventures have been pretty minimal, and you'll need to expand on the given guidelines. Currently I'm running a modified Tomb of Annihilation (PCs started at 3rd) and opted to handle milestone leveling in a way I feel captures the best of both approaches: Level 3: Arrival & Port Nyanzaru Level 3-6: Jungle exploring (“finding and getting to the Lost City”) (+1 level) Level 5-8: Lost City of Omu (“exploring, dealing with yuan-ti, getting key”) (+1 level) Level 7-10: Kuluth-Mar (“learning atropal’s identity”) (+1 level) Level 7-9: Fane of the Nig...

Friday, 26th January, 2018


Thursday, 7th December, 2017

  • 12:43 PM - Gardens & Goblins mentioned GameOgre in post Monster Races and a quick sword thrust at the gate
    In our current collection of one shots (that's dangerously close to becoming a campaign), we have lizardmen as slaves (the degenerated ancestors of the now-extinct Dragonborn). They are captured, kept docile with tranquilising brews and trained for various domestic tasks, from farming to fetching. Much like you, @GameOgre , I've made it clear the role of lizardmen in the setting. Explained how the dominant society sees and treats them. Emphasised that any lizardmen characters would be considered property and, at best, be considered out-casts. And ya know what? Folks are aok with it. It's part of the appeal. Play an outcast, something exotic, a race that's not 'off-the-rack'. And I reckon that's the crux of the issue. If a certain race or class is exotic then whatever makes it exotic should be reflected during play. If Aasimars have not been sighted for centuries, the player should expect their Aasimar character to recieve more attention than say, the human character. If Aasimar's are known from legend to be cold, brutal tyrants then said attention may lead to violence. And if Aasimar are considered an ancient enemy, then the player should expect the potential for violence to be part and parcel of their dealings with the appropriate NPCs. Personal, I believe the problem your experiencing is one of exe...

Friday, 31st March, 2017

  • 07:29 AM - Lanefan mentioned GameOgre in post EXP Complaint leads me to this idea.
    Simply double/triple the XP needed. Or just don't use XP. Level up every few months. Or after each major quest is complete.Note that in the first post GameOgre says the players like tracking their characters' xp, which kinda pulls not using them off the table as an option. Lanefan

Wednesday, 12th October, 2016

  • 01:45 PM - Mercule mentioned GameOgre in post My players want Human Centric
    I have to say, GameOgre, I'm kinda with your players. I much, much prefer human-centric settings. Humans ground a setting and give it that anchor of relatability that actually allows the other races to be interesting. That isn't to say that I wouldn't play in or run a campaign that focused on or only included some other race. Just that I expect there to be justification for it. That justification doesn't have to be extreme, but it does have to exist. Take, for example, classic pseudo-Medieval European D&D vs. Oriental Adventures (sake of same ruleset). I prefer the stock D&D tropes, but don't hate OA. If you want to run a full-on OA game, I'm actually probably going to be all for it because it's a little different and unique -- assuming this isn't intended to be an indefinite shift of the group's focus (i.e. I'm in for 12-18 months; one campaign). Why? Because I'm open to trying different things. I'm going to have expectations, though, of the game being steeped in Eastern flavor. If you end up describing a s...

Saturday, 26th March, 2016

  • 04:35 PM - Fralex mentioned GameOgre in post Queer As A Three-Sided Die: Round Table From GaymerX3
    It's about striking a tricky balance between not caring what someone is, and not ignoring what someone is. GameOgre, most of what you said sounded fine to me, it was just that "I don't want to know" line that tripped up some people's sensors. That's the sort of sentiment that tends to be associated with those crappy people you mentioned, the ones who think the very existence of different orientations is somehow offensive, and that any acknowledgement of them, no matter now innocuous, is like having those "deviants" force their opinions down innocent straight people's throats. I doubt that's what you were trying to convey, but for people who have been told things like that their whole lives, well, it's easy to see why they'd have little patience for it. The unfortunate truth is that even if the genuine jerks are few and far in between, they are very loud and have a habit of poisoning the phrases they're most fond of yelling. Until the world moves on and they quiet down and/or die off, it's best to avoid sounding like them.

Wednesday, 10th February, 2016

  • 05:03 PM - TerraDave mentioned GameOgre in post Guns with a kick! Effect on game world?
    Hi GameOgre, welcome to the internet! Yes, firearms helped drive armor from the battlefield in real life. This is a well-established fact that, like other well-established facts, people like to dispute. Now, limited armor did persist because non-fire-arm weapons continued to be used, especially by cavalry, but it was a niche thing. Yes, and more importantly, bypassing armor is an interesting way to distinguish firearms from other weapons. Otherwise they are just alt-crossbows and kind of pointless. You have to decide how: ignore X amount of armor, attack vs. dex save, attack vs. dex save with a bonus for really heavy armor, or something else. NOW, what are the game implications? Combat gets deadlier and faster, which may also fit the flavor you want. Or, you give a bonus to non-armored or lightly armored defense (prof bonus, for example) that can partially offset that. There will still be melee weapons, longbow fetishists (see previous post), and crucially, monsters! So still a reason...

Friday, 30th October, 2015

  • 09:13 PM - El Mahdi mentioned GameOgre in post Warlord Name Poll
    ... ; @Ashrym ; @Athinar ; @AtomicPope ; @Azurewraith; @Azzy ; @Bawylie ; @bedir than ; @Bedrockgames ; @bert1000 ; @billd91 ; @Blackbrrd; @Blackwarder ; @Blue ; @Bluenose ; @brehobit ; @BryonD ; @Bupp ; @Campbell ; @CapnZapp; @CaptainConundrum ; @CaptainGemini ; @Carlsen Chris ; @casterblaster ; @CasvalRemDeikun; @cbwjm ; @ccooke ; @Celebrim ; @Celondon @ChameleonX ; @Charles Wright ; ChrisCarlson; @CM ; @cmad1977 ; @costermonger ; @Creamsteak ; @Crothian ; @Cybit ; @Dausuul; @Dayte ; @dd.stevenson ; @DEFCON 1 ; @Delazar ; @DersitePhantom ; @Diffan ; @discosoc; @D'karr ; @Doc Klueless ; @doctorbadwolf ; @DonAdam ; @Dragoslav ; @Duganson; @EdL ; @EditorBFG ; @Edwin Suijkerbuijk ; @Eejit ; @ehren37 ; @Elfcrusher ; @El Mahdi ; @epithet; @erf_beto ; @Eric V ; @eryndel ; @Evenglare ; @ExploderWizard ; @EzekielRaiden; @Fedge123 ; @fendak ; @FireLance ; @Fishing_Minigame ; @Flamestrike ; @FLexor the Mighty! ; @Forged Fury ; @Fragsie ; @Fralex ; @FreeTheSlaves ; @froth ; @Gadget; @Galendril ; @GameOgre ; @Garthanos ; @Ghost Matter ; @Giltonio_Santos ; @Gimul; @GMforPowergamers ; @Gnashtooth ; @Green1 ; @GreenKarl ; @Greg K ; @GreyLord; @Grimmjow ; @Grydan ; @GX.Sigma ; @Halivar ; @HEEGZ ; @Hemlock ; @Henry ; @Herobizkit; @Hussar; @IchneumonWasp ; @I'm A Banana ; @Imaro ; @Iosue ; @Irennan ; @JackOfAllTirades; @jacktannery ; @jadrax ; @Jaelommiss ; @JamesTheLion ; @JamesonCourage ; @JasonZZ; @jayoungr ; @JediGamemaster ; @JeffB ; @Jester Canuck ; @jgsugden ; @jodyjohnson; @Joe Liker ; @JohnLynch ; @Johnny3D3D ; @KarinsDad ; @kerbarian ; @kerleth ; @Kinak; @KingsRule77 ; @Kirfalas ; @Kobold Stew ; @koga305 ; @Lanefan ; @Lanliss ; @Leatherhead; @Libramarian ; @Li Shenron ; @LuisCarlos17f ; @lowkey13 ; @Manbearcat ; @MarkB; @MechaPilot ; @Mecheon ; @mellored ; @Mephista ; @Mercule ; @MG.0 ; @MichaelSomething; @Miladoon ; @Minigiant ; @Mishihari Lord ; @Mistwell ; @MoogleEmpMog ; @Mon @MonkeezOnFire ; @MoonSong(Kaiilurker) ; @MostlyDm ; @Mouseferatu ; @MoutonRustique; @Nemesis Destiny ; ...

Saturday, 13th June, 2015

  • 08:45 AM - Wik mentioned GameOgre in post Dealing with a trouble player and a major blow up
    GameOgre A little harsh, but I generally agree with the statement that GMs should be entertainers first and foremost, and that MO does seem to have it in for this player a little bit. Granted, the player's personality is not good at all. Rage quitting is never fun, and the few times I've seen it in a D&D game, I've put a quick damper on it. It's just awful to be around. That being said, the GM has consistently mentioned his dislike of this person. I've GMed for players I'm not really friends with. I've GMed for a few people I don't even particularly like. But I've never GMed for people I actively dislike. What's the point? Continuing to do so, when you know you dislike the person, is a bad place to put yourself in, and it's one that's going to negatively affect your GMing position. It's hard to be impartial when you get frustrated with everything a person says. The plumbing is a good example. A lot of castles did have plumbing. The Romans certainly did. In my own game,...

Saturday, 17th January, 2015

  • 06:17 AM - pukunui mentioned GameOgre in post Do Beholders need sleep?
    The 5e MM is pretty good about stating when monsters don't need sleep. It doesn't say beholders don't (whereas it does say that the undead death tyrant does not), so I think it's safe to assume they do. As SirAntoine says, it's easy enough to picture them hovering in the air with their eyes all closed. Or maybe, as GameOgre says, they sleep with one eye open.

Sunday, 7th December, 2014


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Wednesday, 26th September, 2018

  • 12:46 AM - Hussar quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    They did take the back way in and did 88 points of damage before the first bad guy got to go for the round and then he was engaged with multiple enemies. However, Not till your post did I go look up Plan Shift and was surprised to see it has a casting time of one action. This is where I went wrong. I could have indeed used that to let him escape and not destroyed the party. I didn't realize that the casting time was so short. I know that's just a typo, but, I would sell blood for the PHB to include that spell. :D Ultimate DM spell.

Tuesday, 25th September, 2018

  • 04:55 PM - cmad1977 quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    They did take the back way in and did 88 points of damage before the first bad guy got to go for the round and then he was engaged with multiple enemies. However, Not till your post did I go look up Plan Shift and was surprised to see it has a casting time of one action. This is where I went wrong. I could have indeed used that to let him escape and not destroyed the party. I didn't realize that the casting time was so short. Welcome to 5e. Where the DM is actually responsible for their game. The encounter isn’t bad and it isn’t bad design. You made a mistake. Happens.
  • 12:57 PM - Reynard quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    They did take the back way in and did 88 points of damage before the first bad guy got to go for the round and then he was engaged with multiple enemies. However, Not till your post did I go look up Plan Shift and was surprised to see it has a casting time of one action. This is where I went wrong. I could have indeed used that to let him escape and not destroyed the party. I didn't realize that the casting time was so short.How did 1st level characters manage so much damage in one round? Did they just get lucky? If so I tend toward the "so be it" philosophy. Imagine if they had managed to kill the bad guy. The repercussions of that accidental success would be awesome!

Monday, 24th September, 2018

  • 11:04 PM - Greg Benage quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    I didn't change anything. The NPC didn't get a chance to do anything before his options were VERY limited. It was face a very real possibility for death from unknown forces trying to escape without using any abilities(They took him down almost 30 hit points before he even got to go) or use his main go to power that had every chance of if not killing the foes then at least taking them out of the combat long enough for him to escape. This seems extraordinarily unlikely unless you made a mistake. OBVIOUS SPOILERS BELOW When the PCs enter the straight corridor leading into the hall where the villain is located, they are 80 feet away. The villain has 120-ft. darkvision. The villain likely doesn't have line-of-sight for the full 80 feet due to stairs, but he can still see them in the corridor before they even get to the hall. There is no where for them to hide in the corridor, so they can't approach by stealth. If they are using a light source, so much the worse. Once they enter the hall, the PC...
  • 08:45 PM - robus quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    The Fact of the matter is you do not put a foe 7 CR's higher against the party and expect everything to be fine. Not at level 1 at any rate. Yes the foe wasn't trying to kill the monster but you cant say the same for the other way around! It's just bad design. So you're claiming that the designers put a "gotcha" encounter for level 1 characters? There was no foreshadowing? No "reputation" hints given to the players (no roll needed because the Waterdeep NPCs with dangerous reputations are generally avoided by the regular folks of which the PCs are recently members :) ). I just don't understand how the PCs went into this encounter guns blazing if the reputation of the NPC has been foreshadowed? Away from books at the moment, but does the text say "Don't let the PCs know what/who they're about to encounter!"? :)
  • 06:54 PM - 5ekyu quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    I didn't change anything. The NPC didn't get a chance to do anything before his options were VERY limited. It was face a very real possibility for death from unknown forces trying to escape without using any abilities(They took him down almost 30 hit points before he even got to go) or use his main go to power that had every chance of if not killing the foes then at least taking them out of the combat long enough for him to escape. Now its important to realize that at my table the pc's and npc's and monsters all play by a lot of the same rules. I realize thats obviously not how you play things at your table and that's fine for you. But I don't let the party just move and attack ect whenever they want to, I don't let the other side do that either. In combat we use initiative to decide who goes when. As far as the bad guy not killing them goes. I do not let the party wizard cast a fireball and just decide who in its area of effect is effected and how much they are. The spell doesn't work like th...
  • 06:12 PM - Reynard quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    The Fact of the matter is you do not put a foe 7 CR's higher against the party and expect everything to be fine. Not at level 1 at any rate. Yes the foe wasn't trying to kill the monster but you cant say the same for the other way around! It's just bad design.It's only "bad design" if the only way PCs interact with villains is through violence. Dragon Heist isn't supposed to be that kind of adventure, where everything you meet is meant to be skewered. Now that the players know this, how was it going forward?

Friday, 21st September, 2018

  • 09:06 PM - MNblockhead quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    While I do see some value in the "not everyone is beatable" type lesson. I just do not see a lot of value on forcing a wildly unbalanced encounter on the party with survival criteria that the party doesn't know. For instance is it BAD that a party would try to stop a villain trying to get away? That seems counter-intuitive. Bad guys seek to escape and heroes bring them to justice. For instance, the Players knew the monster was dead, but argued to themselves that their characters wouldn't have a clue what it was and so attacked it and tried to bring it down. If the party would have been less effective and hadn't one rounded the help and still had enough change left over to threaten the big bad and force it into a confrontation they would have probably lived. I dunno, I'm just shocked im the only one having issues with it. If you were the DM and were having issues with it, you could have just had them knocked out and have them come to in any alley later, missing their coin and other valuabl...
  • 06:35 PM - Demetrios1453 quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    We had several close calls even though 90% of the encounters were easy until the first real major boss. Don't know how to hide spoilers so lets just say it was a major bad guy who was WAY over the pc's level 1 ability and even though he tried to (get away) the party forced him into a fight and he destroyed the entire party in six seconds. One round and done,TPK. Like ok I realize not everyone follows that same script and reacts to seeing that the same way but I hardly think that is THAT far off normal. Am I missing something or are others having to deal with the same thing or heavily alter the adventure?I know which encounter you are taking about - so how did they force that NPC to fight? The entrance is fairly distant from where the NPC is trying to escape, and there are two other NPCs available to run interference. Did they manage to get around those two (provoking opportunity attacks) and get into the NPC's face before he could move? If so, the NPC should have just passed on by, allow the...
  • 06:06 AM - UngeheuerLich quoted GameOgre in post Dragon Heist TPK
    We had several close calls even though 90% of the encounters were easy until the first real major boss. Don't know how to hide spoilers so lets just say it was a major bad guy who was WAY over the pc's level 1 ability and even though he tried to (get away) the party forced him into a fight and he destroyed the entire party in six seconds. One round and done,TPK. Like ok I realize not everyone follows that same script and reacts to seeing that the same way but I hardly think that is THAT far off normal. Am I missing something or are others having to deal with the same thing or heavily alter the adventure? I am not sure about this particular combat, but reading the adventure prologue, it is mentioned that many bad guys don't want the PCs killed. In waterdeep deaths will start an investgation so the boss you mention might just knock them out instead of killing nameless would be heroes.

Friday, 31st August, 2018

  • 01:21 PM - 5ekyu quoted GameOgre in post Arguments and assumptions against multi classing
    Decent game has nothing to do with rules. A good DM can run a game in the worst rpg and have the players cheering for more.Obvioulsy, we were talking about the rules being **used** in actual play, in actual impacting player choices - not the printed rules of an rpg system. In my experience decent game and rules the gm uses and how much of the world makes sense internally vs "because i said so" have an awful lot to do with each other. They are intrinsically linked. When i have seen myself GMs run good games with bad "RPG systems" and get great success it has always involved choosing to remove or alter the bad rules that would otherwise get in the way of fun - either by actual stated house rules, on the fly handwaving or even just choosing to emphasize encounters, challenges and setting elements that push the bad rules to the side and spotlight the good rules more. The rules that serve up more fun are shown more, the rules that hurt fun more dont get as much screen time if any. I suspect tha...
  • 10:38 AM - 5ekyu quoted GameOgre in post Arguments and assumptions against multi classing
    Shrug, Most Dm's have house rules and strange setting options or non-options and use or don't use optional rules as they see fit. In my experience players are many and DM's who can run a game are so few that if the game is good the DM gets a full table no matter what his personal add ons or no no's are. If it's no multiclassing or only playing Pathfinder or AD&D or OD&D or fate........players really want to play and will do just about anything for a decent game.That last sentence "for a decent game" is pretty much exactly what i was saying abd what we seem to agree on. Most of the time i have seen it "because i said so" does not equate in players' eyes to "a decent game."

Monday, 18th June, 2018

  • 11:43 PM - Dausuul quoted GameOgre in post Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
    But something in real life is totally misrepresented in the game rules. You... are familiar with hit points, right?
  • 06:02 PM - Sacrosanct quoted GameOgre in post Balancing D&D
    Well it's really like he sat down at the table to play a game of Chess where the house rules made sure its a challenge to play the game but forgot that one side only had pawns and so Zapp is trying to introduce the missing pieces. Actually, if you go by his description of high level play from a while back, when he sits down to play chess, every piece does the same thing. Just charge forward regardless of what's going on in the game, and see which piece breaks first. ;)

Friday, 15th June, 2018

  • 04:29 PM - Sacrosanct quoted GameOgre in post Balancing D&D
    So is this the final, final word on balance in D&D or is there going to be one more final word after this one? Unfortunate use of words in that last thread for sure ;) Love this thread! Although I went in a totally different way. I added a feat to every monster in the game. . Not only have I done this, I actually created monster specific feats to add some variety to the table (as well as rules in how this impacts CR)

Wednesday, 13th June, 2018

  • 05:20 PM - 5ekyu quoted GameOgre in post Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
    A real life situation that I have seen at the game table was two people trying to remember a game rule and one of them was on the right track and starting to remember but the other guy helping him went down the wrong thinking trail and the guy about to solve it got all mixed up. I've seen the same thing happen in just about every other real life skill check type situation from stealth to climbing, often with some real hilarious results. But something in real life is totally misrepresented in the game rules. The help action doesn't require a roll of any sort so it's always successful and never hinders the character being helped and that's just flat out wrong. Now I'm not saying it should be all the other way either. Plenty of times getting help...works great! I just find it so crazy that something so common place is so.......unrealistic. Would it really be so unfun if the strength 6 wizard couldn't offer the 20 strength barbarian much help in the way of lifting that gate up by han...

Tuesday, 12th June, 2018

  • 09:38 PM - Umbran quoted GameOgre in post Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
    The help action doesn't require a roll of any sort so it's always successful and never hinders the character being helped and that's just flat out wrong. You may be conflating/confusing the mechanic and resulting narrative. The mechanic gives a benefit. But, the overall check *may still fail*. That place where the guy helping made it worse is *within* that chance of failure. You can narrate it as "the two of you just aren't enough" or as "you almost had it, and then clueless here reversed the polarity of the neutron flow, and it gets botched."
  • 07:12 PM - Seramus quoted GameOgre in post Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
    The help action doesn't require a roll of any sort so it's always successful and never hinders the character being helped and that's just flat out wrong. Now I'm not saying it should be all the other way either. Plenty of times getting help...works great! I just find it so crazy that something so common place is so.......unrealistic.Sometimes the Help Action fails. That's when both dice are low.
  • 06:46 PM - Tony Vargas quoted GameOgre in post Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
    But something in real life is totally misrepresented in the game rules. Yeah, RL is what we play D&D to escape from, so that's fine, really. ;P The help action doesn't require a roll of any sort so it's always successful and never hinders the character being helped and that's just flat out wrong. Yeah, it's a fairly rational 'gamist' decision. The player declaring the help action is using up his action, prettymuch sitting out his turn, and in return the character he's helping 'automatically' gets Advantage. That is a very steep price to pay, so if you want players to pay it, making it work 'automatically' (and Advantage is 'clever,' in a way, in that it seems to help more often than it actually does - unless you choose to differentiate 'your die' from the 'advantage die' by color or order rolled or something) is a pretty good idea. If there was a meaningful chance of blowing your action to 'help' and not being helpful or even screwing things up, it's that much less likely anyone would e...
  • 06:26 PM - Satyrn quoted GameOgre in post Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
    A real life situation that I have seen at the game table was two people trying to remember a game rule and one of them was on the right track and starting to remember but the other guy helping him went down the wrong thinking trail and the guy about to solve it got all mixed up. I've seen the same thing happen in just about every other real life skill check type situation from stealth to climbing, often with some real hilarious results. But something in real life is totally misrepresented in the game rules. The help action doesn't require a roll of any sort so it's always successful and never hinders the character being helped and that's just flat out wrong. Now I'm not saying it should be all the other way either. Plenty of times getting help...works great! I just find it so crazy that something so common place is so.......unrealistic. Would it really be so unfun if the strength 6 wizard couldn't offer the 20 strength barbarian much help in the way of lifting that gate up by han...


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