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  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th March, 2019, 09:02 PM
    Necromancy that makes me laugh is the best kind of necromancy.
    14 replies | 3177 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th March, 2019, 07:49 AM
    Thread Hijack! Players rarely get the opportunity to talk back to the authority figures in their life, so it is extremely common for them to indulge in a little escapism and have a sassy, smart mouth to NPCs. And while it stretches credibility for the NPCs to take that kind of abuse, I do believe in letting players have some leeway when it comes to being a smart arse, since it is so cathartic...
    15 replies | 756 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th March, 2019, 12:31 AM
    Hahaha. It was someone who posted above me, but had their post deleted. So now I look like the necromancer. :D Bloody dwarven illusionists.
    51 replies | 11484 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Saturday, 23rd March, 2019, 11:29 AM
    I assume the DM is rolling either way. Could be their Deception/Persuasion check, a Knowledge check, a Saving Throw, or even the Deception/Persuasion roll of a third party to see what this NPC believes. But the bigger takeaway is that averting eyes and sweating is not a reliable indicator that someone is lying. :P
    150 replies | 2885 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Saturday, 23rd March, 2019, 10:25 AM
    I don’t want to speak for Charlaquin, but those are indicators of the speaker feeling emotions. Not necessarily that they are lying.
    150 replies | 2885 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Saturday, 23rd March, 2019, 10:18 AM
    I use Passive Insight and adjust my description of what the NPC says based on that, sometimes mentioning more details to a specific player who has a really high Passive Insight. Then I leave it up to the players to decide, which may or may not include more intense grilling if they think the character is suspicious. I never mention if they are lying or not in absolute terms.
    150 replies | 2885 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Saturday, 23rd March, 2019, 10:03 AM
    Damn dwarven wizards and their online advertising schemes.
    51 replies | 11484 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Saturday, 23rd March, 2019, 09:57 AM
    8/10. We’re in character most of the time, but straight faced Buffy style humor certainly does happen.
    48 replies | 1315 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Saturday, 23rd March, 2019, 02:29 AM
    I split the difference. Rolls happen to PCs, and they determine some of the emotions the PC is experiencing. But the players are free to add additional emotions and make the final choice about what to do. For example, "The aged monk sounds pretty convincing, and your black heart feels a rare twinge of sorrow at the plight this poor man has been through." Then I leave it up to the player to...
    812 replies | 54547 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Friday, 22nd March, 2019, 06:28 PM
    Limited? Yes. But even a limited Wizard has more options than a Fighter. It’s all relative.
    6 replies | 321 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 20th March, 2019, 09:38 AM
    Definitely in the camp of “Nets do not roll for damage, so adding damage does nothing.” But I love the Crossbow Expert Rogue idea.
    222 replies | 4140 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Friday, 8th March, 2019, 08:49 AM
    You're a smooooth criminal. :devil:
    116 replies | 4658 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Thursday, 7th March, 2019, 04:47 PM
    Bob Ross is clearly a Sword & Board Paladin - brush in one hand, palette in the other. He "paints" with his blade and has happy little accidents.
    12 replies | 410 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Thursday, 7th March, 2019, 05:51 AM
    Brownies. Imagine the countless troubled homes and hearths when the Brownies get upset. Food spoils, the cobbler finds all his nails on the floor each morning, the kingdom's gold has been turned back into straw, rats are in the pantry, the hearthfire puts itself out the moment anyone looks away, pottery is cracked, castle walls are painted with sap and mud, and not a single piece of clothing...
    20 replies | 792 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 6th March, 2019, 09:26 PM
    Hag Eye - Not unless the player is a Hag. If they are, they are welcome to start a coven and use it. Hearthstone - Ethereal? No. Cure Disease? Sure. Soul Bag - No, but there might be a viable soul in the bag at the time of acquisition. What the players do with that is a great plot hook.
    3 replies | 285 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Tuesday, 5th March, 2019, 06:38 AM
    CWB can be insanely powerful, yes. But getting eight pixies is pretty unreliable. I would say the most powerful spell is just Raise Dead. Just the hope that someone might bring you back keeps people adventuring instead of farming.
    233 replies | 39111 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Monday, 4th March, 2019, 12:35 PM
    I certainly agree with this, and actually have some short stories to share! One player was reduced to tears when I tried to put a time limit on length of rounds in combat. One player is very intelligent, but stresses out and goes into 'freeze' mode when under a time limit. One player just didn't like them, and said "Deadlines are something I'm trying to escape from." All of them were...
    22 replies | 684 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Friday, 1st March, 2019, 01:19 AM
    Stupificer Put your lowest score in Intelligence. Focus on Buff and Ritual spells. Alchemists let their homunculus make intelligence skill checks, Artillerist take Defender turret. Craft Headband of Intellect at 12. Name yourself Algernon.
    278 replies | 16291 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Friday, 1st March, 2019, 12:32 AM
    Not liking the shape of this. It's certainly powerful in a batman-utility sort of way, but I didn't expect the Artificer to become a "Must Have Pet" class. My potion thrower is gone, and the party Beastmaster is giving me side-eye. Unless you can put Returning Weapon on the potions you throw.
    278 replies | 16291 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 27th February, 2019, 09:15 PM
    It was a joke. I wouldn't actually make a new player sit down and watch a 42 minute video about a single category of gaming. But I would encourage them to watch if they demonstrated poor sportsmanship at the table. Among other things. It's fun to watch either way! :cool:
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 27th February, 2019, 08:22 PM
    These days, I just make new players watch a video.
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 27th February, 2019, 04:18 AM
    The characters started out as themselves sitting around a D&D table, knowing everything they personally know. Plot happens, and they become characters inside the game with a new set of skills (Class Levels). They tackled the challenges put before them with full genre savvy, full knowledge of how the world of D&D works, in world conversations about levels and feats, etc. Imagine a mash up...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 27th February, 2019, 01:54 AM
    Another good way is to recruit players who you trust and share your sensibilities about integrity, so it's not even an issue. In my experience, this best accomplished by filtering who you invite to your table and getting to know them for a period of time first. Obviously doesn't work for situations like AL, but I don't do AL.
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Wednesday, 27th February, 2019, 01:35 AM
    I'm cool with it. Nobody really likes the idea of being lied to, but the world runs on a balance between truth and lies. I can't even imagine what a world without lies would look like. Certainly nothing like ours. They recently tried to teach an AI how to haggle with people over the price of online goods (like E-Bay). The AI quickly learned to lie because it consistently saved more money than...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Tuesday, 26th February, 2019, 11:14 PM
    Different strokes for different folks. I actually ran a campaign where metagaming was completely allowed. The novelty was incredibly fun at first, and I don't regret the experience, but the players quickly lost engagement and stopped having fun. We had meetings to see what we would do to spark life back into things, but nothing cut the mustard. It didn't work out for me or mine, but I...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
    3 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Monday, 25th February, 2019, 05:31 AM
    There are people who have come to the same conclusion as you and been very happy with the outcome, just as there are people who came to the same conclusion but discovered they were having considerably less fun, and several other stops along the spectrum. Encouraging people to consider these things is great, and a big part of why I think having these discussions are important for the hobby. But...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Monday, 25th February, 2019, 05:19 AM
    The player intentionally trying to kill their character without reasonable explanation is disruptive. In this case, reasonable explanation might be the pre-game conversation about retiring the character to introduce a new one, and an unreasonable explanation (by the standards of our table) would be trying to escape a polymorph without the characters knowing anything about polymorph. Depends on...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Monday, 25th February, 2019, 03:41 AM
    Because they have emotions and preferences that are different from your own. ... I wanted to write something longer about social upbringings and cultures, etc. But in the end, this is about accepting diversity over a grand unified theory of metagaming.
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Monday, 25th February, 2019, 03:05 AM
    Condensing my quote blocks to this part, since they are all related to this point. It has absolutely nothing to do with how reasonable the act is. A skilled DM or Player can make almost anything sound reasonable within the context of the fiction. It has everything to do with the state of mind of every person at the table at the moment the intentional frog suicide is announced. If nobody...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Monday, 25th February, 2019, 02:55 AM
    I'm definitely in favor of positive metagaming. Choosing to bite at one of the plot hooks, deciding to become friends with party members, making sure to share the spotlight, etc? All things I welcome and encourage at any of the tables I participate in. The happy compromise that exists between being true to your character + making sure everyone at the table has a fun time.
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th February, 2019, 09:57 PM
    If a new player who sincerely knew nothing about polymorph intentionally killed herself? I would politely have a conversation with her after the game about why she didn't seem to be having fun, and what we could do to make things more interesting in the future. When you remove emotion and preference from the equation, I suspect you are correct. But that's not a useful thing for the question to...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th February, 2019, 09:26 PM
    Because it doesn't happen as a direct request. I've seen several dozen 'first time polymorph' encounters from brand new players and grizzled veterans alike, and the number of players who have attempted immediate suicide is... Zero. Like I posted to Elfcrusher, there have been times where the proposed action accidentally resulted in death, because that's how the dice rolled when the victim...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th February, 2019, 09:13 PM
    Other way around. In this case everyone is thinking about the character as someone who was suddenly transformed into a frog with no knowledge of how polymorph works. If the player proposes anything in the vast spectrum of reasonable actions, nobody would blink an eye. If one of those reasonable actions happens to result in the frog dying because that's the way the die rolled, nobody would blink...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th February, 2019, 09:27 AM
    Your scenario goes much further than that, and into a situation that would quite likely ruin the fun and enjoyment of the other players at my table. You're communicating to me that you strongly advocate an "All Metagaming Is Accepted" approach. I'm not going to tell you how to run things at your own table, but my players don't consider the type of metagaming you are proposing to be the positive...
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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  • Iry's Avatar
    Sunday, 24th February, 2019, 09:19 AM
    I encourage your DM to have these kinds of conversations after the session is over, preferably in private.
    288 replies | 8237 view(s)
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Monday, 25th March, 2019


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Wednesday, 20th March, 2019



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Friday, 1st March, 2019

  • 12:24 AM - Ash Mantle mentioned Iry in post Artificer UA has been released!
    As promised, WotC has just released the new version of the Artificer in a 10-page PDF! "In a previous installment of Unearthed Arcana, we presented a new character class: the artificer, a master of magical invention. Based on the feedback we received, we now offer a new look at this class." 105135 They also note that the schedule for Unearthed Arcana is changing -- "We typically look to release Unearthed Arcana once a month. The series remains a valuable opportunity for us to publish playtest content and gather your feedback. That said, we want to release Unearthed Arcana content only when it is ready for you to try. Moving forward, this content will release on a more flexible schedule, roughly once a month and on whatever day works best that month. We’ll let you know when the next UA installment is ready! (There’s a good chance it will contain more content for the artificer.)"

Monday, 12th February, 2018


Saturday, 10th February, 2018

  • 04:11 AM - Harzel mentioned Iry in post Survivor D&D Villains- IGGWILV WINS!
    Acererak 14 Asmodeus 20 Demogorgon 16 Graz'zt 6 lggwilv 12 Iuz 17 Tharizdun 21 (edited, previously based on wrong values) Acererak 14 Asmodeus 21 Demogorgon 16 Graz'zt 6 lggwilv 12 Iuz 17 Tharizdun 19 Acererak 14 Asmodeus 19 - first time everyone's been below 20 Demogorgon 16 Graz'zt 7 lggwilv 12 Iuz 17 Tharizdun 18 - this builds in a correction from two posts up where Iry only knocked one point off for a downvote instead of two; the second point is cancelled out by my upvote here where I left it at 18. Hmm. Looks to me like Iry did take two points off. Adding one to Tharizdun. Acererak 11 Asmodeus 16 Demogorgon 9 Graz'zt 8 lggwilv 14 Iuz 15 Tharizdun 15

Friday, 9th February, 2018

  • 10:41 AM - Lanefan mentioned Iry in post Survivor D&D Villains- IGGWILV WINS!
    Acererak 14 Asmodeus 19 - first time everyone's been below 20 Demogorgon 16 Graz'zt 7 lggwilv 12 Iuz 17 Tharizdun 18 - this builds in a correction from two posts up where Iry only knocked one point off for a downvote instead of two; the second point is cancelled out by my upvote here where I left it at 18.

Sunday, 17th December, 2017

  • 02:32 AM - pming mentioned Iry in post [Homebrew] Elf
    ...ed for hundreds if not thousands of years (depending on subrace). 1e AD&D had to 'balance' elves somehow. Ergo, Level Limits (as they were in Basic). And before anyone goes off on how 'stupid' level limits were, I've found that many who think this are thinking of level limits 'backwards'. If you think of EVERY race having level limits and restrictions, then you can think of humans two biggest (and only, really) advantages; they can choose any class and can go to any level. Elves have all their special abilities and whatnot...humans can be any class and reach any level. It's the human's "shtick"...which explains why they are so dominant as the 'core AD&D race'. Ahem. Anyway...with regards to your elven subrace thing here, you will have to address WHY elves don't rule everything. If they focus, as a race, on learning magic, and each house/clan focuses on one aspect of magic, and they live for thousands of years, and they can reach any level....well...you can see the disconnect. As Iry said, you're pretty much saying "Elves can just pick stuff and come up with why after". You might want to add in some sort of un-changeable reason why elves don't dominate existence. Level limits and class choice did this for 1e (and 2e to a lesser degree). Maybe have a set chance after an elf hits, say, 20th level or 300 years old (whichever comes first), that the elves 'magic life force' is deemed to have completed it's task and is pulled back into the Fey world to be used again. Have it increase every X years or something so that, eventually, the elf's "life force" will be reintegrated to the Fey. I'd go with something like, 10% + (1d6-1)% per year added, cumulative, after hitting 20th or 300. So at 301, the DM rolls 1d6-1 (so, 0 to 5) to the 10% base. Then the player rolls d100. If he/she rolls equal or under, his elf's life force has a few days to prepare his leaving and he then performs some ritual, some swan like boats appear and whisk his 'spirit' back to the Fey. Anyway, go...

Tuesday, 14th November, 2017


Sunday, 16th July, 2017

  • 06:40 AM - Kobold Stew mentioned Iry in post Why are 5e familiars celestial/fey/fiend instead of beasts?
    Iry has it, and I do think it was a conscious choice. As a spirit the familiar can die and be re-cast and come back and be the "same" (or can re-appear as a different species, and be the "same"). There's no cruelty in keeping it dismissed; etc. I would have preferred familiars to be beasts -- real cats and owls, instead of fey cats and owls.

Tuesday, 28th February, 2017

  • 07:09 PM - lowkey13 mentioned Iry in post Tempter class
    Uh, no. As @Iry already alluded, this class is ... how do I put this nicely ... RIDICULOUSLY UNBALANCED. Okay, that wasn't being nice, but honest. Putting aside what I assume to be typos, and not wishful thinking (you get 5 hit points at higher levels with a d8, not 6), this class in insane. You are combining- 1. d8 hit points; and 2. Access to ninth level spells; and 3. Decent spell list (in fairness, at least you didn't provide eldritch blast and fireball!); and 4. Two fighting styles (!) and action surge (!!); and 5. Ridonkulous abilities like bribe and resistance to melee attacks (!!!); and 6. Confusing abilities (if your proficiencies are simple weapons and swords, why is amorous archery a fighting style?). There's a good concept in there, and you've clearly done some excellent work on it, but I would not allow this class, as-is, in my campaign.

Sunday, 27th March, 2016

  • 10:23 PM - Satyrn mentioned Iry in post Clerics and Wisdom
    . . . But I think Satyrn really nails it. . . I I'm tempted to make a crucifixion joke. . . But I really want to deflect the credit you're giving me. It's @Pontius Pilate that nailed it. I mean Iry.
  • 06:51 PM - Satyrn mentioned Iry in post Clerics and Wisdom
    What Iry said. Though you could apply Charisma to an Evangelical sort of. . . I was gonna say "relationship with your god". . . but I realized that it'd be more for a relationship with your flock.

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Saturday, 23rd March, 2019

  • 04:52 PM - MoonSong quoted Iry in post Dwarves are the best spellcasters?
    Damn dwarven wizard necromancers and their online advertising schemes. Here, fixed it for you...
  • 11:11 AM - Sadras quoted Iry in post If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
    I don’t want to speak for Charlaquin, but those are indicators of the speaker feeling emotions. Not necessarily that they are lying. Charlaquin specifically states "when the NPC lies to a PC I roll". An observant player would notice this pattern is usually followed by lying indicators (upon failures). When it is the truth the DM does not roll. I dunno, I could be mistaken but to me that seems like a bit of a give away.

Thursday, 7th March, 2019

  • 01:52 PM - Oofta quoted Iry in post "Good" Creatures that are Chaotic or at least anti-Civilization
    Brownies. Imagine the countless troubled homes and hearths when the Brownies get upset. Food spoils, the cobbler finds all his nails on the floor each morning, the kingdom's gold has been turned back into straw, rats are in the pantry, the hearthfire puts itself out the moment anyone looks away, pottery is cracked, castle walls are painted with sap and mud, and not a single piece of clothing stays patched or darned overnight. Kingdoms fall when brownies get pissed. For a moment there I was really hungry for some reason. :confused:

Friday, 1st March, 2019

  • 01:12 PM - Ancalagon quoted Iry in post Artificer UA to be released in February
    https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer-2019.pdf Thank you - but I checked the website first, not well I supposed, where is this posted? Edit: I see it now, but it hasn't been tagged properly so at the moment I'm writing this it's not showing up everywhere.
  • 01:59 AM - Parmandur quoted Iry in post Artificer UA to be released in February
    A "slight tweak and reflavoring" would be polishing up the old Artificer mechanics which were quite fun. This version is the "completely new mechanics". Not completely new to the system though: the changes they've made are based on the feedback the last approach received.
  • 01:17 AM - Parmandur quoted Iry in post Artificer UA to be released in February
    That's just casting spells with a slight buff, which they could already fluff as whatever they want. Not an actual potion throwing mechanic. Using alchemist tools is a change up in mechanics: and why do they need completely new mechanics if a slight tweak and reflavoring does the job? I like how this Artificer works with material components the way the Bard does with vocal: adds some symmetry.
  • 01:02 AM - Parmandur quoted Iry in post Artificer UA to be released in February
    Not liking the shape of this. It's certainly powerful in a batman-utility sort of way, but I didn't expect the Artificer to become a "Must Have Pet" class. My potion thrower is gone, and the party Beastmaster is giving me side-eye. Unless you can put Returning Weapon on the potions you throw. The potion-throwing is definitely there, if you look at how the base Spellcasting works: seen particularly how it interacts with Alchemical Mastery.

Wednesday, 27th February, 2019

  • 08:31 PM - Satyrn quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    These days, I just make new players watch a video. 42 minutes!?! I'd rather watch a couple episodes of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
  • 02:28 AM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    Another good way is to recruit players who you trust and share your sensibilities about integrity, so it's not even an issue. In my experience, this best accomplished by filtering who you invite to your table and getting to know them for a period of time first. Obviously doesn't work for situations like AL, but I don't do AL. I trust players... to make the most advantageous* choice if they can and I am rarely disappointed. I think that's a perfectly reasonable behavior in the context of a game and I judge no person for doing exactly that. It invites conflict and further metagame thinking when those choices are at odds with the table rule of "no metagaming" or "sometimes some kinds of metagaming but other times not other kinds of metgaming." That is why I would say the toad (or any low-hp monster) is not a very good choice for a DM who concerned about "metagaming" because among the most advantageous choices is to get that toad killed. Make the best choice having your fighter in killer wh...
  • 01:44 AM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    I'm cool with it. Nobody really likes the idea of being lied to, but the world runs on a balance between truth and lies. I can't even imagine what a world without lies would look like. Certainly nothing like ours. They recently tried to teach an AI how to haggle with people over the price of online goods (like E-Bay). The AI quickly learned to lie because it consistently saved more money than the alternative. Lies are a tool, neither good nor bad. Flavor. Condiments. They can be used to hurt people, or they can be used to tell amazing stories and bring joy to millions. I try to do the latter more than the former. A good way to make sure the players don't lie in this situation is to not create an environment that incentivizes it. What I've found through personal experience is that groups that focus on squashing "metagaming" are often incentivizing the heck out of it.

Tuesday, 26th February, 2019

  • 11:48 PM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    Different strokes for different folks. I actually ran a campaign where metagaming was completely allowed. The novelty was incredibly fun at first, and I don't regret the experience, but the players quickly lost engagement and stopped having fun. We had meetings to see what we would do to spark life back into things, but nothing cut the mustard. It didn't work out for me or mine, but I recommend everyone at least give it a try. See for themselves. That's how we grow as gamers. What sort of "metagaming" did they get up to? Was that the only aspect of the game that was different than how you usually play?

Monday, 25th February, 2019

  • 05:18 AM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    Because they have emotions and preferences that are different from your own. I used to hold those preferences though and, after some considerable thought on them, I decided the problem was that I was allowing my fun to be threatened by how other people made decisions regardless of the reasonableness of the decision in context. I can't control how other people make decisions and, frankly, I shouldn't want to. Upon that realization, I stepped away from that way of playing right then and there. After all, if the toad jumping under the bard's boot and being squished makes sense in context, then why should I care that the player did that to gain an advantage? It's a cool outcome and I should be happy that it happened. I should not let why that person did that spoil my fun. At least, that's the conclusion I drew some years ago.
  • 04:54 AM - Elfcrusher quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    ... I'm going with this? It becomes immersion-breaking for you because you are applying the "rules of the game" to the narrative scene. Your character, ignorant of the difference between DM-actions and player-actions, would take this totally in stride. It's the player who is bothered by it. Thus it is metagame thinking that lets it be disruptive. A truly immersed player wouldn't notice. My experience has been the opposite. Approaching it like a game first and a roleplaying experience second was pretty dominant when the red box came out. As time passed I’ve seen more and more care being put into the roleplaying side. Sometimes things went too far, to the point where players were being disruptive with their roleplaying at the expense of fun at the table. But more than ever before, I’m seeing a happy compromise that leans to neither extreme. And I think that’s a really good place for D&D to be going in the future. Are you staking out a position here that the kind of "metagaming" Iry and others don't like and "roleplaying" are opposites, and/or mutually exclusive? I know some people (@Saelorn for example) have a very, very narrow definition of roleplaying in which, they claim, using player knowledge is forbidden. But that's not the only, or even the most fun & interesting (imo) form of playing a role.
  • 03:30 AM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    Condensing my quote blocks to this part, since they are all related to this point. It has absolutely nothing to do with how reasonable the act is. A skilled DM or Player can make almost anything sound reasonable within the context of the fiction. It has everything to do with the state of mind of every person at the table at the moment the intentional frog suicide is announced. If nobody cares, then it is not disruptive. This is probably the kind of group you come from (speculating). If it is disruptive to the majority of people at the table then it becomes a problem. This is the kind of group I come from. The question that remains is why the motivation of the player is disruptive to some, if the fiction is otherwise reasonable. At least, it remains a mystery to me.
  • 02:39 AM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    If a new player who sincerely knew nothing about polymorph intentionally killed herself? I would politely have a conversation with her after the game about why she didn't seem to be having fun, and what we could do to make things more interesting in the future. It might have nothing to do with having fun. I can imagine a scenario where a player figured being turned into a toad meant his or her character was effectively dead anyway. A character dying does not mean the player is not having fun. In fact, the rules of the game specifically mention this. When you remove emotion and preference from the equation, I suspect you are correct. But that's not a useful thing for the question to become. For my part, my "preference" went away when I figured out what that preference was based on. Being an intentional act by the player is what makes the experience un-fun for other players. I can think of many ways a player might suggest a course of action that accidentally leads to the death...

Sunday, 24th February, 2019

  • 09:34 PM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    Because it doesn't happen as a direct request. I've seen several dozen 'first time polymorph' encounters from brand new players and grizzled veterans alike, and the number of players who have attempted immediate suicide is... Zero. Like I posted to Elfcrusher, there have been times where the proposed action accidentally resulted in death, because that's how the dice rolled when the victim attempted to scramble to safety or still got caught in an AOE. But not one single person has committed frog seppuku intentionally, until after they know how the spell works. None. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, right? This is a thing that could happen. If it did, as in the case with the new player with no knowledge of the spell, what would you do? If you do indeed decide to rule that the toad is squished, ending the polymorph spell, would you rule the same way for the grizzled veteran? If not, why not? Certainly. While there is an enormous range of perfectly reasonable actions, "polic...
  • 06:12 PM - iserith quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    Your scenario goes much further than that, and into a situation that would quite likely ruin the fun and enjoyment of the other players at my table. You're communicating to me that you strongly advocate an "All Metagaming Is Accepted" approach. I'm not going to tell you how to run things at your own table, but my players don't consider the type of metagaming you are proposing to be the positive kind. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how my scenario "goes much further than that." It seems to me that if the player at your table was brand new to the game and legitimately had no idea how polymorph worked, his or her proposal of the toad jumping under the running bard's boot and being squished would not be suspicious. So what you're actually doing here is policing the thoughts of other people at the table - by choice - and allowing your opinions about how a player arrived at the action declaration to "ruin the fun and enjoyment." Whereas someone like me would only be focused on the t...
  • 04:06 PM - Elfcrusher quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    I encourage your DM to have these kinds of conversations after the session is over, preferably in private. I was (again) taking poetic license. Such interruptions don't happen in my games. I was imagining what happens at tables that worry about such things. But even without the actual interruption at the table, think about what's going on here: if another player 'metagaming' is breaking your immersion, it's because you are letting yourself worry about what the player is thinking, not what their character is doing. You are either breaking your own immersion by going there, or you weren't really immersed in the first place because you were already in the mindset of thinking of the other characters as their players, not as the characters themselves. @Mouseferatu: so when Bilbo just happened to put his hand on the ring in the dark and absentmindedly pocket it, and then later just happened to stick his hand in his pocket at the right time, and then just happened to blurt out "What have I...
  • 10:04 AM - MNblockhead quoted Iry in post XGE "Training" Downtime Activity - does it devalue tool proficiencies?
    My games have very little downtime. 250 days in game might be 2+ years of playing. Sure, that has been my experiences in other campaigns, but this campaign is different. In my current campaign, there is significant down time. I'm running the mega dungeon Rappan Athuk with some variant and homebrew rules, including training to level up (which requires a mentor/faction/temple or other venue for training), XP earned by GP extracted which means travelling to cities to sell items (and cities in the Lost Lands setting have limits on the total values of goods that can be sold there in a month). Distances of major population areas in the Lost Lands are BIG. Until teleportation or other fast travel becomes available to them, there is significant downtime and downtime is a kind of side game played by e-mail between our monthly 8-hour adventure sessions. So, at low levels, the party delves into Rappan Athuk, then they travel to (for now) Bard's Gate for training to level up and various downtim...

Saturday, 23rd February, 2019

  • 10:57 PM - Elfcrusher quoted Iry in post Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell
    At my table, this would shatter suspension of disbelief like an extinction event comet. This is functionally the same as reading a module beforehand and knowing where to go for the best treasure because (after a long sigh) you just got lucky. Or encountering a new troll freak for the first time and using its weakness immediately because (again, long sigh) you just felt like changing things up today. Know what shatters my suspension of disabelief? Interrupting the game so the DM can accuse/lecture a player over how the DM defines 'roleplaying' and what he thinks the player 'should' do.


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