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I'm a dad, designer, and dreamer learning to live, labor, and love in New Rome...
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Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond Sunday, 10th February, 2019 08:39 PM

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Wednesday, 13th February, 2019


Tuesday, 12th February, 2019


Monday, 11th February, 2019


Sunday, 10th February, 2019



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Tuesday, 12th February, 2019

  • 07:22 PM - Elfcrusher mentioned BadEye in post The Pitfalls of D&D Beyond Data
    So really what is it that the quote proves? That when Iím not responding about a science and math issue that Iím not scientific but instead offer a reasonable point of view. Why are you making that an issue at all? It doesnít seem very reasonable to do so IMO. It doesn't "prove" anything, except maybe that you're not being completely objective. Rather, I offer it as evidence (again, as distinguished from proof) that you're bringing some pretty heavy biases to the table. To wit: this thread is ostensibly about what might be wrong with the methodology. In the OP you asked a bunch of perfectly valid questions, but in the absence of answers that invalidate the methodology (or possibly in the presence of answers, from @BadEye which validate it), you jumped straight to inventing explanations for the imagined bad science by assigning blame (to the "business people") based on pure prejudice. All of which...to get back to my snarky comment on the 1st page...makes me doubt the objectivity, and even the purpose, of this whole endeavor.
  • 04:55 PM - Elfcrusher mentioned BadEye in post The Pitfalls of D&D Beyond Data
    Cool. And I agree. Hmm...really? It's possible you misread my intent...I edited for clarity. So given my belief that the chart is inaccurate whatís the issue with me assigning the blame for that inaccuracy on the business side and not the technical side? That seems like a reasonable thing to do , no? That's totally human. Just not very scientific. I don't mean to defend the data or it's conclusions...I'll let @BadEye, seemingly the only person with actual information, do that. But this thread is rife with pre-existing belief that those conclusions are wrong, and arguments that are only intended to support that belief, not to engage in genuine inquiry. So to wrap it in a shroud of "back off...I'm just doing science" is comical.

Sunday, 10th February, 2019


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Wednesday, 13th February, 2019

  • 10:13 PM - KarinsDad quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    Not so. Out of users that have unlocked the entire PHB, we still see the non-variant human selected more or less as frequently as variant. I posit this could mean a smaller percentage of the playerbase is concerned with mechanical "optimization" than those of us that comment on internet threads are. :) It depends on what you mean by mechanical optimization. I've often picked standard human because it gives the most boosts to ability scores. That's mechanical optimization. Other players could pick variant human because it gives a feat. That too is mechanical optimization. It depends on what you are optimizing for.
  • 04:49 AM - ClaytonCross quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    This data is presented as a high-level look at distribution of race, class, and subclass selection for active characters on D&D Beyond. It serves that purpose just fine. Just curious, I assume their is a window for "active characters", is it something like 30 days or 120 day? etc. I ask because I play 2 monthly games that shifts due to player availability. If its a 30 day window of activity I play the first two weekends one month, play the last two weekends the next month, and the D&D Beyond polling is done on in the middle of the next month, its possible that despite being active characters they would not have been active in the time frame of the active pole. This would of course effect more than my group and impact the numbers. I understand you can't get everyone and it maybe that your interested in 30 day range changes. I am just curious what the data polling window is, it that's something you allowed to answer. If you can't I do understand it there is a need to keep some things behind ...

Tuesday, 12th February, 2019

  • 01:52 AM - Mistwell quoted BadEye in post The Pitfalls of D&D Beyond Data
    Can you link everyone to where that is? Not so. Out of users that have unlocked the entire PHB, we still see the non-variant human selected more or less as frequently as variant. I posit this could mean a smaller percentage of the playerbase is concerned with mechanical "optimization" than those of us that comment on internet threads are. :) No, but it is possible to have a higher percentage in a separate data sample that removes characters that have not reached a level appropriate to choose a subclass, which is what has happened here. This data is intended to provide a broad view into relative popularity between all other individual subclasses. I'm not going to have time to deep dive an explanation on this, but you're not thinking of the data sets how they should be considered. Taking an incredibly simple example, let's go with the entire population is 100 and it is composed of only Fighters and Clerics. There are 70 fighters and 30 clerics. The 70 fighters choose (le...

Monday, 11th February, 2019

  • 04:01 AM - FrogReaver quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    This is my point that no one here (except me) knows the actual dataset and many assumptions are being made. Multiclassing and homebrew subclasses are going to throw off any napkin math you all can do. If we entirely removed multiclass characters, for instance, does this actually still give us the most accurate look at class popularity? Is a class still popular if it is chosen, even if for only a level or two? We can absolutely remove multiclass characters (and we have before), but I can tell you the distribution doesn't actually change that much. I'll have to take your word for it. I'm surprised that's the case, probably more so than I should be lol. That's very interesting. I'm also really curious about whether there is anything you can tell us about how active characters are determined?

Sunday, 10th February, 2019

  • 10:32 PM - Jay Verkuilen quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    This data is presented as a high-level look at distribution of race, class, and subclass selection for active characters on D&D Beyond. It serves that purpose just fine. It could certainly "confuse" or "amuse" those who want to read too much into it or think it is trying to achieve a different purpose than it is. When you have a fairly numerate fan base, expect issues like the fact that the percentage of Life Clerics exceeds the percentage of Clerics to generate a WTF?!? reaction. This happened because comparing the one-way margin of subclasses is a strange thing to do. Not actually having your data, I'd look at the breakdown within class, for instance, of Clerics, which archetypes are chosen? Comparing Life Clerics to Champion Fighters is... odd. I also think that giving the breakdown as "Given what Class is chosen, which Archetype is then chosen?" really helps answer which is the most popular within a particular class. It's less bothered by multiclassing, too. While you're right t...
  • 04:25 PM - TwoSix quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    No being the answer, the reason is such a high percentage of clerics choose Life Domain that the total of that subset is higher than all the other individual subclasses for all the other classes. I can confirm that over 60% of clerics on DDB are Life Domain, and clerics have the most subclasses of any class. Only sorcerers exhibit more single-subclass dominance with Draconic comprising 65% of all sorcerers (sorcerers just have a good bit fewer total number of characters). Wow. Could we get more data like this? The popularity of intra-class choices is a lot more interesting than popularity across classes, since there are a lot less confounding factors. I'd love to see a chart on popular feat choices as well. How many people take feats as opposed to ASIs, especially at tiers 1 and 2. (People run out of good feats by Tier 3 and 4, generally.) What feats are the most popular at Tier 1 and 2? Good data sets are like crack to the nerdiest among us, I swear. :)
  • 04:03 PM - Jay Verkuilen quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    No, but it is possible to have a higher percentage in a separate data sample that removes characters that have not reached a level appropriate to choose a subclass, which is what has happened here. This data is intended to provide a broad view into relative popularity between all other individual subclasses. tl;dr: If all these data are being used for is to confuse and/or amuse some posters on EnWorld, no harm. If decisions are actually being made from them, for instance to guide future product development, I'm not sure that would be a good analysis, at least as presented. I'm not 100% sure what happened but I am an actual statistician IRL and know the kinds of mistakes that we make (having made many myself and seen more). Summarizing these data in a few charts would be incredibly difficult. In many ways it's like trying to compare the list of courses taken by college students in different majors across different years in school, trying to do it in only a few pages. The data may be inte...
  • 03:36 AM - FrogReaver quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    Again, very assertive for someone that does not have the complete picture of the data. For instance, I have not mentioned anything about multiclassing, which impacts this greatly. Taking the barbarian class for a couple of levels is actually very popular for multiclass characters, and those would not end up having a barbarian subclass yet. When looking at subclasses only, those barbarians would be removed from the dataset. We could absolutely remove any characters that are multi-class from these results, but there are pros and cons for doing so and we decided to keep them in for now. So, having the actual data in hand, I will assert that it is correct, but as with any analysis uses some assumptions and parameters that you do not have access to for reverse engineering. The goal of sharing these numbers is not to concretely establish camps out there in the community - it is an interesting exercise that could demonstrate player choices and trends. I do appreciate your thirst for accuracy a...
  • 02:48 AM - FrogReaver quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    Yes...it is? I guess this will be my last attempt to explain, this time with a question - do you see any single other cleric domain in the list on that chart? No being the answer, the reason is such a high percentage of clerics choose Life Domain that the total of that subset is higher than all the other individual subclasses for all the other classes. I can confirm that over 60% of clerics on DDB are Life Domain, and clerics have the most subclasses of any class. Only sorcerers exhibit more single-subclass dominance with Draconic comprising 65% of all sorcerers (sorcerers just have a good bit fewer total number of characters). Perhaps one other part you're missing is that the population for the subclasses chart already removes all characters without subclasses. Since it is looking only at relative subclass distribution, it only includes characters with subclasses. In other words, the subclasses chart does not use the same population as the classes chart. I tried here. I can assure you th...
  • 02:14 AM - FrogReaver quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    I'm not going to have time to deep dive an explanation on this, but you're not thinking of the data sets how they should be considered. Taking an incredibly simple example, let's go with the entire population is 100 and it is composed of only Fighters and Clerics. There are 70 fighters and 30 clerics. The 70 fighters choose (let's say) among 10 subclasses and (let's say) equally for the example. That means that for those 10 fighters subclasses, they each only compose 7% of the total percentage of individual subclasses. For the 30 clerics, let's say that 20 of those are Life Domain, and the rest are Knowledge Domain (10). This gives us a final breakdown of: 20% Life Domain, 10% Knowledge Domain, and 10 other subclasses at 7%. Even though there are only 30 total clerics compared to the 70 total fighters, Life Domain still comprises the highest individual percentage. Of course mileage is going to vary on any of this. The intent is to demonstrate which subclass choices are popular ...
  • 01:48 AM - FrogReaver quoted BadEye in post Humans, Fighters, and Life Domain Most Popular On D&D Beyond
    No, but it is possible to have a higher percentage in a separate data sample that removes characters that have not reached a level appropriate to choose a subclass, which is what has happened here. This data is intended to provide a broad view into relative popularity between all other individual subclasses. But when 20% of your character population don't have subclasses and when all clerics, warlocks, sorcerers by definition have subclasses it kind of significantly skews the results right?

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