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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Today, 07:34 AM
    I would pass then on playing a bard in your game. You are basically then as GM saying that you **will not** stop or reduce the bonus items you plan to introduce *and* that de facto every new one you add becomes another "bardic inspiration wont help you" finger in my character's essential class feature. Thanks for "fixing" my bard, who will now curl up on the TV and sleep a lot. Moving...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:31 PM
    I remember back in the day having a particular BG with a penchant for art (and artists as it turns out) and so a lot of the "loot to be had" was art and by not providing "ye olde art shoppe" in every village and small town it spawned a bit of seek out NPCs" as well as planning and work to get that "gp" out and converted. this led to several times they used the art as a propr for plans and...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:27 PM
    It was very much that sort of feel.
    106 replies | 3361 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:01 PM
    Actually, funny story In the last 5e game i played the Gm was hung up on my sorcs 1d10 firebolt. not a game went by with him not commenting on how much damage it did just made no sense etc... also had shocking grasp for those close-in moments. not a peep. Also had dagger for d4+3 which averages the same as a d10 but without the low or the high - not a peep. Got to be funny.
    106 replies | 3361 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:44 PM
    "That sort of thing doesn't cut it for me as a player or DM. I feel that choices should be made with roleplaying in mind first, and mechanics second. " I prefer for both to serve as valid decision making points and to not clash. Thats why i like the relative lack of "gold for plusses" after tier-1. ASIDE I rememer AD&D having DMG charts on jewels, art, etc as tressure from way back....
    742 replies | 83136 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 08:21 PM
    I generally start new charscters st the same level with slightly lower net gear and wealth - if the previous character's stuff of not in play. If the previous character's stuff is still there, cut the gear wealth by 33-50% cuz I dont want death to power up the group. If the existing party is mostly found gear then the stuff for the new charscter will be chosen by me. If it's mostly bought or...
    18 replies | 353 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 08:17 PM
    Yup. Also one more tidbit, I find it good to almost always include mixed encounters with more than one type. That not only makes it interesting but tends to scale back some excessive outputs of a particular creature ability happens to outperform against your group.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 06:55 PM
    One of the more solid bits of advice from the CR system is that the CR are a threshold based system and throwing higher CR at parties risks unexpected results due to the adversaries being able to do things the PCs cannot counter. this can be from spells that they cannot cope with or from just a high level of damage in single turns. Consider what a few counterspells from an 8th level caster...
    20 replies | 374 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 06:40 PM
    As an aside, even if not going the fuzzy hp mode, i just have the players track the damage done to enemies. They seem to like it, tracking their own results, and it avoids me having to track so much. i can concentrate on the NPCs actions and so forth and only worry when a creature's total damage exceeds various thresholds i use for description.
    106 replies | 3361 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 06:46 AM
    Uhhh... CR is much more than just damage. This is part of a rather common problem of looking at a single part of two selected wholes. Iron Golem has higher AC more HP by double, advantage against all magic, AoE breath weaponry 37, fire healing feature and cannot be turned. You clearly looked up the Iron Golem, so you knew this, so all I can guess is this is a joke, right?
    5 replies | 240 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 09:26 PM
    I may have said this before but to your point of the change in perspectives as to "dND" from 3.0 onwards... the only game i ever ran in where treasure found was treated as "gp to cash in and buy the magic we want" was 3.5. In that game, after we got out of the first "dungeon" i had played with them in, when it came time to divvy loot i was taken aback that there was no possibility of...
    742 replies | 83136 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 08:12 PM
    LAst first, yep. first last - agree it can work but to me a key is them knowing that it is a playstyle that will or wont or may be seen in the game. if you signed up for a game and agreed to play knowing a session might spend a lot of time on one player doing something that doesn't involve you *and* that you are expected to be proactive with your time at session not just waiting for...
    742 replies | 83136 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 07:53 PM
    Yup but that wouldn't be any better if the "activity" was the rogue moving off to go steal something and the fighter in heavy armor was left out either - i think we both agree there. I think an example of a Gm showing poor time management between players and characters at a game is a good example of bad GMing but not an example of a bad system. Myself, i would (if i was Ok with the one...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 07:36 PM
    i have hardly ever seen a game where aging mattered to the adventurer - exception being when you have age as a resource that can be burned by attacks and so forth. traveller let age be a chargen limitation - your character could get more rounds of skills pre-game but each pushed you close to age impacts on abilities. But i believe for the most part things like "but not extending lifespan"...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 05:58 AM
    Re the "sake of argument" aristocrat, in one of my games, a character living an aristocratic lifestyle would have drawn certain kinds of attention and been approached with opportunities. In fact, akin to your note, a nearby prince would almost certainly have had agents inform him of new aristocrat in town and opportunities for contact occur. I think the focus of what does it do for me once we...
    742 replies | 83136 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 05:40 AM
    Look as I said already in this post abt different approaches to "fixing" these spells " I would want spells to differentiate between friendly summons and hostile summons much more than they do" You dont think that's a direction on could take in sprll redesign and want to keep more of the sameness (fits more in line with making them more just different names on same spell sp some will like...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 11:55 PM
    1 I prefer at least full stat block for new or custom foes (there should be these) but can be fine with abbreviated statblocks for std or wandering. 2 i value portability so i want at least one site (village or crossing or dig with npcs and fun stuff) that i can grab and move plus the traditional main conflict map. If ehat i get is only usable for this one thing, i feel it wadnt worth it. 3...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 10:25 PM
    Obviously it only "drains" concentration until you stop using them. So not sure those two sentences work together.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 08:16 PM
    "The summoned creatures are friendly to you and your companions.†"
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 07:26 PM
    Sure.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 07:24 PM
    But let me ask, if conjure elementals reached very similar danger beasties and had similar casting time etc yto call demons - then dont you end up with just two different flavors of the same spell? Is it really *taking a different spell* if they produce almost identical outcomes? I am not arguing for having two summons at the same level where one is clearly better, but a mechanical nose...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 05:58 PM
    FWIW I agree in play i describe warlocks as spell fighters - the spam spell attacks like fighters spam wpn attacks - with the hexblade being realky the more direct "my spell looks like a weapon" variety. I personally dont think invocations for low-end limited at will spells or bigger level appropriate once per SR spells are a problem But... Absolutely have more patron specific and...
    35 replies | 1210 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 04:30 PM
    Personally, I see the XGtE War Caster as essentially a generalist. It's basically non-school specific with boosts yo defense and offense across a broad spectrum.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 04:25 PM
    Personally, yes. Much of the dissatisfaction I have seen in play and in considerations for play for Warlock has come in the direction of folks thinking or expecting they were getting a spellslinger. They see the Warlock spell list and think "hey, yeah, caster" especially with short redt dlots. I think dropping the slots and spells known, adding more invocation slots as well as more...
    35 replies | 1210 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 03:47 PM
    Thought... A second concentration spell is in effect a second concentration spell effect being run each round. It's close to adding one more spell working a round per caster. Would a compensation feat for the non-casters be z feat that gave one more attack per turn?
    60 replies | 1701 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 03:42 PM
    Drop the extended duration and the level limit altogether imo. Let "do they have shield" be an issue of eorry.
    11 replies | 518 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 04:22 AM
    I would categorize D&D 5e as Medium magic. I do so because while the magic that is had is high and has the potential to have dramatic impact on life, it is limited to a small number of individuals and a large part of the default assumption of setting is practically indistinguishsble from non-magic.
    31 replies | 1124 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 02:11 AM
    I dont see a contradiction as you do. The guidelines on when to call for rolls and not calling for rolls of the outcome is certain are fine as far as they go. So are the rules where effects and sprlls provide info on what a made or failed save means. There is no contradiction there. The lists of what happens when saves fo one way or the other or that the spell requires a save is the...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 05:31 PM
    i have the opposite experience. in my 3.5 and 5e games, alterations were common - at least as far as Hp are concerned. But i am not talking about changing every goblin and ghoul but the ones that matter - the leaders and so forth. But just as much, the question becomes one of choosing foes - it has always been the case that for any specific group one beast may be much tougher than another and...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 02:05 PM
    Oh i agree without hesitation that LGs can certianly see similar frustrations where the core rules provide little support for an element they want in their campaign. Its why i chose "fuel" instead of "cause" as my word choice. For my campaign at chargen, i too am frustrated with the lack of core system for "rites and ceremonies" aka hedge magic or lay-magic aka...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 12:41 PM
    If a given set of players and their GM see no real value in any of the things gold can be used for in the game, then that part of the treasure system will be easy enough drifting into triviality with the only sem-required effort being adjusting their GP figure once in a while. Since they have chosen to not engage actively with that sub-system, it pretty much becomes just a small bit of math they...
    742 replies | 83136 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 10:18 AM
    When I have seen this tried in actual play it tended to go to one of two unsatisfactory results - 1 everybody had and used the "same spells as far as results but the cosmetics were different leading to essentially a devaluing of the six choice itself. My +3 AC spell is from conjured swarms of animals or insects interesting and making it harder to get clear shot. Your is a force shield....
    253 replies | 10267 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 11:07 PM
    Agree with the above. In my next game, that's st the point of ready for chargen, I am working with much more lay-magic and world of wonder vibe and less traditional. As such I am developing rites and ceremonies for essentially a form of occult or hedge magic... and learning some of those or getting necessary fetishes for those will be a sort of "magic item" stand-in. So, instead of finding...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 09:35 PM
    To mr cantrips are a class feature not some extra thing tossed in. So a camtrip that only exists on one class list for a class that has the option of choosing other class features to bolster it alone... that yo me is not requiring an extra investment as much as it is giving you the option to go more than that one way. I personally like that and wish more classes had such choices. Ymmv.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 07:46 PM
    There are IIRC no formal rules in 5e for ritual casting of groups and such. i consider it a lack. in its stead, i would use a site/item type of effects where you have what amounts to a stationary magic items with "if x numbers of spellcasters" type requirements.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 06:46 PM
    yes you do have slightly different spells in some cases, but imagine how many more you would have if the design model was not one single spell appearing on more than one class list? I myself would have had no problem if there were some greater diversity in the spell rosters but there still would need to be a solid core of "needs" that if left out winds up really hurting the adventurer for the...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 06:41 PM
    Ok well i can see some answers and some differences so thanks for your response. First, i judge a system and its elements by itself - not how other games have done it in the past. 5e was built as its own package and i treat it as such - with minor allowances for its sacred cows. Second, when you start arguing about the "cantrip tax" i almost get the sense that you feel the warlock using Eb...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 05:59 PM
    About the bold - IDK - they all face "as adventurers" very similar needs - so wouldn't they tend to have a lot of overlap in their spells? For which of them are Detect Magic and Shield and Light and Charm person not options they are likely to have wanted to have at some point and developed spells for it? Seems to me what you would end up with is a lot of "same spell, different name, minor...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 05:29 PM
    2 - Altering stat blocks is just one way, one option a Gm has to adjust an ecnounter to better suit the specifics of their campaign and their PCs. it is not required at all. Instead one might use more monsters or higher power monsters or more terrain factors etc etc etc. The key is *like almost if not every RPG made* 5e does not claim or try to provide any sort of guarantee about encounter threat...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 04:58 PM
    Re this "My argument is the Eldritch Blast should be a core feature of the Warlock. But since it is not (as the designers wrongly chose to make it a cantrip), then spamming Eldritch Blast feels different than spamming Sneak Attack or Martial Arts. " Admitting from the outset that questioning a "feeling" might be considered pointless, but hey, when that feeling is a basis for a position,...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 02:15 PM
    If one looks at Xsnathars one will find quite a few "tool" proficiency uses that provide benefits- including shoes, including meals, etc. off the top of my head. One can also find prices for skilled craftsmen services there iirc or maybe that was DMG. Bonuses to HP on HD spent, marching time extensions etc.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 12:06 PM
    or a swap... shifting metamagic into warlocks (sorcery points becoming patron favors recovered at short rests) and invocations into sorcerers (with say a half dozen base ones and a half-dozen for each sub-class but still only choosing the same number at any time) and i personally feel you have made both more thematic and more sound overall.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 10:30 PM
    There is nothing inherently wrong or bad with the idea of gear taking damage. It can create a lot of good elements to work with and enhance a campaign in ways that fit the preferred styles. But, when one gets to specific rules that do specific things and obviously support and reward or "make reasonable" this thing over that thing, then the "principle" no matter how liked has to not blind one...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 09:54 PM
    To me, if i want to make my games abcd, i dont add in rules that would work counter to that and then talk about how i hope nobody uses the new rule. Instead, i choose rules which EVEN WHEN USED will make the games abcd. It just never made sense to put in rules to drive results opposite of what we prefer then figure ways to avoid them happen to do that.
    42 replies | 1545 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 09:45 PM
    Yup. It's a big sack of unintended consequences... what's the cheapest lightest weapon a wizard or anyone can carry to blow off crits? Might help TWF as you burn your dagger off-hand to stop the dragon crit then just draw another on your turn. I can imagine how many of their crits being eaten by enemy dagger breaks before my players balked... no wait... they would never approve it in the...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 09:24 PM
    Obviously a gm can rule and change however when they want, but all the official play and responses for ray, this etc have been clear that unless simultaneous is there its sequential attacks.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 09:21 PM
    So your wizards font carry non focus staves now? Bet they will once this goes into effect. Cxn fighter have armor component pouches yo cover them when they get crits? Obviously this will be NPCs I am talking about, cancelling PC crit rolls.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 08:10 PM
    Hmmm... so a nat 20 does extra hp to wizards but does gold piece dmg to armor guys...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 06:16 PM
    i would also question whether or not it imbalances the sub-classes. Without a lot of review, my concern would be that doing this affects sub-classes which rely on concentration spells more much differently than ones where they are more often relying on instant or non-concentrations. Casually hitting core limitations is always tricky and not something to be done to fix a rather "amorphous"...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 06:09 PM
    hmmm... first from my reading of the PHB the Gm has to rule either way on whether the companion dies at 0hp. there is no default given - merely a pair of statements about how Gms may do either for different cases. *See the quote from basic rules at the end. Also, Wisdom plays a major role in pillars as well - with the obvious exploration side stuff, the perception side stuff for about...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 05:47 PM
    There are sub-classes for rangers which get some extra spells and some which don't. Its not often a good idea analytically to look at one aspect of difference and try to equalize "counting noses". That said, if i wanted to give more to the range for casting, make them more distinct, i might allow them RITUAL CASTING as a form of "hedge magic" or something similar (and make sure their list...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 05:36 PM
    Has anyone here suggested not allowing it just because of WOTC defaults? that just seems like an odd thing to spotlight if not.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 05:13 PM
    Personally the sub-class features for the wizard are to me some of the stronger ones and combined with the potentially larger numbers of spells - i have found in play wizards to be far better than lackluster. performance-wise they are right there and should be able to be key members of most any group. I also think if one is seeing them as less interesting or less involved, then the...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 03:27 PM
    Re this... "No worries. I THINK it might have been 5ekyu if it matters. Not positive, though." I doubt it.
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 07:45 AM
    Regarding this... "There's only ever a roll if the outcome is uncertain. The DM can decide yes or no without a formula. That's part of the rules." The key thing about 5e (not unique to 5e) is that there will not usually be a formula but instead a guideline and a circumstance. These are used by the GM to set the difficulties not variables for a formula of all things. For bribery, it would...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Monday, 5th November, 2018, 05:24 AM
    Even if one refuses to look beyond the baaic mechanics, using gold to buy diamonds and make donations of significant size to temples of like minds so as to be as assured of raise or rezz as possible (for you or even allies) seems like a worthwhile investment.
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    Sunday, 4th November, 2018, 06:12 PM
    " The choice to limit was thematic and the "starting races" were partly chosen by my players so that they wouldn't feel as if their 'favoured' race choice wouldn't immediately be available" This is to me a significant point and a good one. It shows collaboration to get both restriction suitable for setting but also making sure to not restrict away player interests. Recently i was polite...
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    Sunday, 4th November, 2018, 05:22 PM
    yeah part of the odd and generally all over the place rules for that section that has tended to bother me and convince me to run it as a beast except when commanded (dominate) or convinced (advantaged animal handling) was the seeeing nod to cannot attack unless ordered **except for** an attack of opportunity which it can do without orders. So that Ao exception if also taken with the cannot...
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    Sunday, 4th November, 2018, 05:09 PM
    Baseline fireball is 8d6 at 3rd level for a 5th level character. Thats avg 28 on failed save and 14 on made save. So, **if** you choose to keep the companion in the close proximity fireball zone *and* it fails its save *and* you did not support as a group with Aid or temp hp or save bonus effects etc etc etc it can indeed die from the avg failure. But if it saves, at 5th level ranger, it...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Sunday, 4th November, 2018, 06:49 AM
    Well you portrayed the GM determining the game he wants to run as **forcing it** on the others and then later went into detail about the GM being the one to compromise and yet did not apparently say anything about the players sticking to their guns being considered forcing the GM to run the game their way? That seems to really be setting the preferences of indistances of the two sides on much...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Sunday, 4th November, 2018, 05:58 AM
    My group has no wizard pcs. My group makes no effort to find wizards, why spend time on that when there are monsters yo beat gp out of. When my group kills wizards and gets spellbooks in their loot, it's useless to us. So ***clearly*** the 5e dedign is the worst evaaah cuz it does not have detailed rules for us selling wizard spell books to farmers for magic potions or st least give us rules...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 09:55 PM
    Once you decide the only bits of the game that matter are those that can be "weaponized" for your dungeon crawls, a whole lot of DnD 5e can be discarded. But the conclusion that thats what D&D is runs counter to quite a bit of its design in 5e. Yes, 5e could have been built so that every iota of it was a "weaponizable" reward, but it wasnt. It was built with some rewards that lend more...
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 09:47 PM
    Analysis is only as rekevant as its assumptions are close to actual gaming and the analysis that goes into good game design and what pretends to be analysis in the white room excel sheet rants are very different things. That said, folks need hobbies so, its all good.
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 08:41 PM
    they said a couple weeks into november i have also heard 11-13 previously. its supposed to be concurrent with the gift boxes which are 11-20 on amazon iirc. EDIT the only other thing i have heard specifically was including the contagion three save explanation clearly in the spell.
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 06:26 PM
    It seems to match their goals for the edition in an obvious way. They removed xp for gold and embraced it for monsters and challenges plus the options for story driven advancement eith milestones or even session xp. They removed mostly the purchase of significant magic items. They removed mostly the purchase of scads of minor bonus superior items. That was not an oversight.
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 06:05 PM
    Of course you certainly looked at vulnerabilities too right? How many have regen that is stopped by force vs fire, acid, silver, etc? But you get no argument from me that the choices in adversaries and types of challenges the GM makes will have drastic impact on balances. IMO it's the #1 by a mile factor in actual play at the table balance and imbalance. That's why I pay so little to and...
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 06:03 PM
    That was the initial thought I had - it makes the beast more survivable but the ranger less. But that ignores the remote PC which is a trope a lot of players have tried to get. Idea is the PC sits softly out of harms way while a stand-in goes and does the fighting, preferably a replaceable stand-in. This allows a much higher survival rate - think a carrier delivering its fighters, a...
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 01:31 PM
    I would suspect that use of and prep of many spells like magic weapon would vary by specific needs and see less use when that need is no longer there. I bet few parties prepare darkvision sprlls if everybody has it, just like magic weapon will drift by the wayside once other options make it not needed. But, net result is, the inclusion of circumstantial adjustments to comparisons based on...
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 11:24 AM
    or at least a cleric who can spare him a 2nd level spell when they hit a resistant adversary that matters
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 02:26 AM
    Magic Weapon 2nd level spell - cast before combat
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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    Saturday, 3rd November, 2018, 02:19 AM
    Unless a GM chooses his foes based on random die roll at CR4 (which iirc is neither required nor even recommended) then the nose count from MM have almost no relevance. Its not how games are actually run in what i have seen.
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 08:43 PM
    Actual play result in an over year long 5e game... 1 proficiency dice 2 success at cost 3 automatic success
    42 replies | 1545 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 08:21 PM
    Given that the PHb and DMg pretty much leave it as truth that the Gm, controls NPCs as the default rule, I am comfortable enough with that as a basis to say that to me it makes sense that the paragraph starts with statements about commanding the beast, ends with the same and so the context of that sentence is how you can command the beast. So, with that context in mind, add to it the GM...
    75 replies | 3447 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 08:02 PM
    I may be out on a limb here but i would call a case where all the players and the Gm and the player who did not play all agreed with and were happy with the choices made "reaching consensus."
    1794 replies | 56939 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 02:04 PM
    Are you also going to address other classes where the class features similarly limit choices? Specifically thinking rogue and sneak not being available for heavier weapons?
    21 replies | 618 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 01:55 PM
    Hmmm... so, now you are getting into not just wanting a companion but wanting it to do what companions in other games did. My general approach to any game system is to not expect it to duplicate any given element of another game system precisely or closely. After all, maybe that thing was something they wanted to fix. So whether it's someone all bent out of shape that Atonrment was 5th in...
    75 replies | 3447 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 01:43 PM
    Also, if it hasn't been said, XGtE includes a number of uses for tools proficiencies - mostly geared for on the road impact but some of those could be used as a basis for "quality gear" if the gm was so inclined. Examples included meals that helped with HD rolls for recovery and footwear that gave you extended marches.
    742 replies | 83136 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 01:39 PM
    Acknowledge? You mean that it may exist in some people? Sure? There are lots of people after all. But, I would say to a player in my game who said that (assumption new player) that an animal companion is not limited by class features alone and so let's talk about what they mean and what they are looking for. After all, it could be as simple as gold plus skill and time - heck some...
    75 replies | 3447 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 01:05 PM
    "**It's irrelevant for this discussion, but about this I have sometimes wished that the Shield spell hadn't been designed specifically against Magic Missile but more generally against force damage effects." Cannot agree more. It could also have served as a broader "force stops force" rule to essentially turn force from "almost nothing resists" to add "so there are more active defenses against...
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 06:20 AM
    Sounds like a working social group to me. I do know this much... We tend to treat campaigns and their obligations like dating - at most like going steady but not marriage. There is no lifelong promise that we will always forever only run games everybody will like. Obviously if we did view it as a marriage with permanent content veto etc... We would be a lot more selective of players and...
    1794 replies | 56939 view(s)
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    Friday, 2nd November, 2018, 06:01 AM
    Agreed but if it is the case thst is yo me even more a case for freedom to run games that meet or cater to some but not others preferences. Honestly, if there are other players that want to GM, great. In my case, the guy who was not in the Stargate could absolutely have GMed some other game with that time and its likely a few of us would have joined in. He chose not to although he had GMed...
    267 replies | 6205 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 11:49 PM
    Re the bold, we have extremely different expectations for what "does work" means for an RPG. Does chess "work"? By that i mean that if any two players of any two strengths sit down and play it by the rules they will get a competitive match? Chess is a simple board game with a stock setup of pieces and absolutely defined playspace etc - surely that can "work", right? An RPG is not a "board...
    49 replies | 1631 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 11:28 PM
    Well, the first and most obvious part thats different in those settings you describe from the books is that training is not an advancement blocker. Advancement comes from a variety of sources but "training" cannot advance most of your abilities and spells - its the "field experience" and such that leads to the acquisition. So there would be no "training" induced advancement collapse that you...
    36 replies | 848 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 09:55 PM
    "Only adventurers really care about how powerful they are, because being powerful doesn't put food on the table, and they have better things to do with their time." Except of course where being powerful does put food on the table. By 5th level, a druid can put out quite a bit of spell based food and water each day, right? If training is the key thing limiting advancement and money is the key...
    36 replies | 848 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 09:01 PM
    Well pretty much I can see most any group where everybody or most choose z similar dpam-one-thing build would be dull. I can imagine three "archer sharpshooters" in nine group turning into the same kind of grind each time, given the limited options they all selected. But that's not the bow and arrows fault.
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 08:55 PM
    You are of course right... in some games whether or not anything makes sense or is consistent can be irrelevant. PCs can have their own advancement system that is completely disconnected from how anybody else does if thsts the game folks want. It's not necessary for consistency to exist. And also, the definition of PC can be as limited as desired. As for GURPS it sounds like you are...
    36 replies | 848 view(s)
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    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 05:21 PM
    Similar with us and VtM - more adult themes plus more solo shenanigans led to smaller group and different players than our four color super-team games. Really, what is being painted as bad or dickish here isnt DMing, it's the group's social contract preferences. I can get that it's not necessarily another group's cup of tea or how somebody views relationships and obligations but the one true...
    1794 replies | 56939 view(s)
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    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 01:28 PM
    I haven't seen anybody disputing that the damage for warlocks using Eb is not better than warlocks using other cantrips. But the problem is not that the cantrip is better than others - its that the warlock is built to focus on (or enable you to choose to focus on...) the EB. I have yet to see ANY Warlock build that gets you the full caster experience or even close to it. So, all the...
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 01:17 PM
    Then the problem is *not* the thing you are kicking out of the game but the feature that is modifying it. The rapier is not needing to be banned because of the sneak attack damage it gets, right? So, thats my point. Instead of banning Eldritch blast change the feature so that its working with Eldritch blast in a way you find acceptable. Change the feature to "once per turn" not...
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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  • 5ekyu's Avatar
    Thursday, 1st November, 2018, 12:36 PM
    yeah - i always make sure to try and describe a warlock (specifically the Eb focused ones but others too) as essentially "an arcane archer alternate" or "an arcane fighter" and clarify that it seems inevitably that the warlock mechanics drive them to one kind of action repeated - not what one would expect a "full caster" to be and point out the warlock is not a full caster. if they go EB they...
    118 replies | 3813 view(s)
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Monday, 5th November, 2018

  • 02:45 PM - Maxperson mentioned 5ekyu in post What's the point of gold?
    ...nd Iíll gladly use it instead, because Iím getting pretty sick of this bickering over semantics. It's not semantics. As noted above, "particular meaning" is very subjective. Alignment has very particular meaning for many people, but doesn't mean much of anything to me. Despite there being no mechanics in 5e for it, alignment does have particular meaning. I didnít say without a roll. I said without a formula. If there is a number about be which the guard will accept and below which the guard wonít accept, thatís a formula. A basic formula, but a formula. If that number can be changed by player actions, thatís a more complex formula. If the outcome relies on a randomly generated number (a dice roll), thatís a more complex formula. But the simple if/then statement if gold offered is >=#, then bribe is accepted is a formula all on its own. Thatís a game mechanic. Not all game mechanics involve dice and modifiers. What formula did I use to come up with a yes or no? As noted by 5ekyu, there are too many factors to consider to even be able set down some sort of formula. You can give 10 DMs the same circumstances, and you will have some automatically say yes, some automatically say no, and some give a roll with varying DCs. That's not formulaic in any way. No individual rule is essential to play D&D, but some individual rules are essential to the function of subsystems of rules, and certain subsystems of rules are essential to the identity of D&D. As evidenced by the overal community reactions to 4e. Some critical mass of different rules made it ďnot real D&DĒ to a significant portion of the fans. Likewise, if you changed or removed every individual rule in D&D, youíd have a very hard time trying to make a case that what youíre playing is D&D. For every "It's not real D&D" that I heard about 4e, I also heard "Yes this is real D&D" from someone else. If that's not indicative that "What D&D is" is subjective, I don't know what is. The way your are talkin...

Monday, 29th October, 2018

  • 11:31 PM - pemerton mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    If one accepts that the fiction all kind of resolves as a block after the mechanics are all dealt with, then what you say is true. But if you want to have the fiction resolve side-along with the mechanics such that at any point in the mechanical resolution you can line up the fiction to suit it, then what you say just doesn't fly.It's one thing to have preferences. It's a different thing to interpret a game system. Clearly 5e works more like 5ekyu describes than as you might wish that it did. Except that, as others have pointed out, describing what you want to do is as far as a player can go.This is a little ironic given your other post that I've quoted! Because here you're saying that, in fact, the fiction does not unfold over the course of play, but is only established "as a block" when the GM decides what happens. Now it's true that describing what you want to do and describing what you're doing can and often do sound just the same at the table; but when you-as-player say in character "I'm walking across the room and opening the door" what you're really saying is "I want to walk across the room and then I want to open the door", and if there's no impediment to either of those actions the DM will likely just say something like "OK. Opening the door reveals a short passage behind, that opens out into a room or chamber after about 10 feet."In your example, how did it become true in the fiction that the PC walked across ...

Friday, 26th October, 2018


Thursday, 25th October, 2018

  • 10:38 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    ...dd - a GM does not have absolute authority over anything or specifically over ANYONE. He is not the RULER. That's because at any moment each and every person at the table can decide to say "no" and completely end the "authority" they have given the GM. If the "players" choose to they can get up, decide you are not the GM anymore, decide someone else is GM and start their own game with the same characters in their own view of the same situation( s) and that's it. No violence needed to get rid of you. Just " we revoke the authority we let you play with." The GM can refuse to GM but if he wants to game must find other players to then convince them to give authority. There is a direct link between "how much enjoyment do I as GM provide to my players" and "the authority i am given by them" in that without the former I likely not to keep the latter. But, the choice to characterize a group agreeing to give the GM more control as being despotic GMed is telling. Huh. 5ekyu, you booted a player out of your gaming group because he didn't want to play a game that you wanted to play. You've never disputed that. Now, since no other player at the table could possibly do that, how exactly do you not have authority over someone? Funny how the idea that you would pick a different day, create a new group and run what you wanted to run was never even mentioned as an option. No, instead you booted the player and more than a few people in this thread saw nothing wrong with that. But, apparently, that doesn't mean authority over someone somehow... :erm: Frankly, call it throat warbler mangrove for all I care. The point is that "traditional" DM'ing places virtually all the power in the hands of the DM. Sadras - the problem I have with calling it "Dungeon Master" is that I consider myself a DM. I regularly run D&D games. But, I certainly don't feel that I have the authority to eject a player for not wanting to play in my new campaign. I have a lot m...

Thursday, 18th October, 2018

  • 06:31 AM - Sadras mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    But what does this show, other than that some players have bad taste? So do some GMs - there's no reason that I know of to think that GMing selects for better taste than playing. How does this show that Gm authority is a better principle? I think 5ekyu answered this question pretty well with his filter post. I will just add, in a DM-driven story, the big picture is known by the DM, so he would be best aware what will and will not work in a given campaign. Can a DM be too stringent? Sure. Like always, as a player you have to find a DM you believe is fair, respect and trust.

Tuesday, 16th October, 2018

  • 10:21 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I once went to a game where the players and DM were very silly throughout the entire game. I politely said thank you and informed them at the end of the night that I would not be returning. It wasn't the game for me. What I didn't do, was expect them to stop playing so silly because I was a player and I didn't like it. Slight difference though. I'm presuming since you said you "once" went to a game, that it wasn't a long term thing. It's not like you had been playing with this group regularly for some time and then they changed, right? You were the new player at the table? Contrast to 5ekyu's example where this is a long time player who, presumably, had been enjoying games with the group before but had one very strong preference - no capture scenarios. Would you seriously then design a campaign predicated on capture scenarios? Really? /edit after reading 5ekyu's description of the situation. You went so far as to boot a player before the campaign even started (I wasn't inviting him to the game and explained why). :boggle: Wow. You actually kicked this guy out of your group so you could play a different game. And I'm taking flak for entitlement issues? Sorry, I don't do that. I wouldn't consider anyone who did that to actually be a friend. That's about as douchey a thing to do as you can. "Sorry, I know we like gaming together, but, this idea I have for a game just sounds like more fun than spending time gaming with you." :erm:
  • 08:58 AM - pemerton mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    Why would the rules have to? You really don't see how horses are different from boots? Really? Here we go with more of the inane questions again. What's the point in asking questions that serve no purpose? And by serve no purpose, I mean have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.Boots are different from horses are different from motorcycles are different from handkerchiefs. You're the one who asserted that motorcycles are relevant but boots not. Why? You're the one who said that in some games nothing is backgrounded? Sneezes, urination, etc are all things that - in such a game - I would assume not to be backgrounded. If in fact they are backgrounded, then it's not true that nothing is backgrounded. When you make these various claims about what's relevant and what's not, I'm not able to work out what you have in mind or what your rationale is. Are you saying you'd be OK with a player who wanted to background boots? And 5ekyu, what system do you use for working out when clothes get worn out? (I gave an example of this from one of my own campaigns.)
  • 06:24 AM - pemerton mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    Boots don't have the same relevance as a motorcycle. Because? Where do the game rules tell me this? Upthread 5ekyu described a horse as the FRPG equivalent of a motorcycle. Why are horses different from boots? They're both there on the equipment list with a price next to them! (Well, in 5e they're subsumed into clothes, but I've never heard of a RPG where any clothes wear out from being worn, except one time in my Burning Wheel game where the result of a failed Resources check for upkeep was a PC wearing holes in the soles of his boots.) In some styles of game play you do that. In others nothing gets "backgrounded". So in those games - I assume yours is an example - how do you work out when clothes wear out, when the PCs need to urinate and how long that takes, whether a PC sneezes while trying to cast a spell, etc, etc, etc?
  • 02:24 AM - pemerton mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    If the GM says he wants run a game about X, and the player adamantly refuses to budge from his desire for it not to be about it X, is that bad playing?What does that have to do with any of the examples actually under discussion. If I as a player say "I want to play a warlock" and the GM - like 5ekyu, according to many posts upthread - is perfectly happy for me to run a fighter instead, then the GM doersn't want to run a game about patron's messing with their warlocks. We're not discussing a game where the GM's pitch is "Let's play a game in which you're warlocks and I get to play your patrons who mess with you." The GM's desire to do that is entirely conditional on the player playing a warlock. Mutatis mutandis for the motorcycle. I'm sick of players wheedling out of the inconvenient consequences of the things they choose and do in the campaign. <snip> you've been pretty clear with the badwrongfunist asshattery.So I'm an asshat but you're just expressing reasonable preferences? What is the "inconvenient consequences" of playing a warlock rather than a wizard? You're not getting a mechanical advantage. I got my power from Cthulhu is not inherently more powerful fiction than I got my power from reading this ancient tome that I discovered. Mutatis mutandis for cler...
  • 12:31 AM - pemerton mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    There are all sorts of choices a player may make and actions they may have their PCs do that have a cost to them in the course of a game. Is GM to ignore all of the ones the player happens to want to ignore? Where is the line drawn?Here's a simple answer - if a player comes into a game saying "I don't want to play a game about X" and the GM then proceeds to make the game about X, that is bad GMing. If I have a player who wants to murderhobo his way across the landscape without negative social and legal consequences, but that's not the kind of game I want to run, am I still expected to run that game for him?I'll leave that between you and that player. I'll also note it has nothing to do with the current discussion about motorcycles and warlock patrons. In the warlock patron discussion, no one is saying that they don't want the player in their game - 5ekyu and others have repeatedly said the player is welcome to play a fighter, wizard, sorcerer etc. In the motorcycle example, which is from a V:tM game, no one has suggested that whether or not a PC can get from A to B is the main focus of play. (Presumably if no one described his/her PC's motorcycle the issue wouldn't even come up - certainly in the few V:tM sessions I've played the mode of transport didn't seem to matter.) That may be a somewhat more extreme example than wanting to keep a motorcycle free and pristine from any and all interference or wanting to take a huge pet dinosaur into any densely packed urban environment, but it's the same sort of topic.No it's not. Wanting to have a motorcycle that doesn't get stolen isn't a game style thing at all. Wanting to have a warlock whose patron doesn't hose him/her isn't a game style thing at all. If the player never mentioned the motorcycle, the game woud progress identically but with no cycle theft. Mutatis mutandis if the player...

Sunday, 14th October, 2018

  • 04:26 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    ...nd those orc children escaped. And, after the third, fourth, tenth time, most groups are just going to take it as read anyway. This is the point I keep coming back to. We already Background tons of stuff in play because it's not terribly interesting. How many groups actually, consistently, track spell components? How many groups worry about paying the monthly living expenses? So on and so forth. Sure, you might do it from time to time, but, realistically, it just fades back and becomes a non-issue. Do you seriously destroy a wizard's spell book every time he falls in water? Or gets fireballed or whatnot? Naw, you just take it as read and move on because it's too much of a PITA. Here, we have examples that only really affect one player and the DM. The rest of the group couldn't likely give a toss about it. Do you seriously care how we hide the Druid's animal companion every single time? The funny thing about this conversation is that some posters, like billd91 and 5ekyu are framing it as a powergaming thing. But, look at that warlock's patron. There's two sides to that. Sure, if you have an active patron, then the patron might ask the PC to do something. But, it also works the other way. There's times when the PC can and should be able to call upon his or her patron for help - be it information, or contacting other NPC's or whatnot. By backgrounding, the player loses that side of things as well. Sure, the DM can't force behavior from the player, but, by the same token, the player cannot expect to get anything as well.
  • 04:12 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    The DM is not your trained monkey. Are the player there just to entertain the DM and the other players? Nope. Theyíre there to entertain themselves too. Soís your DM. Seriously? You're going to hate the game and not have fun because that one character doesn't have to deal with his or her patron? Really? And note, if we go with the way 5ekyu has described his games, if the player doesn't want to deal with the patron, that player should play another character. In which case you aren't going to get to play the patron anyway. If playing the patron doesn't really matter for the DM's enjoyment (since the DM is perfectly fine if the player plays a different character) then what difference does it make at the end of the day?
  • 01:31 AM - pemerton mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    ...n, how much of an impact would Backgrounding actually have on a campaign?I've got no objection to what you go on to say about Backgrounding. The discussion of warlock patrons was initially triggered by me talking about PCs being betrayed by a (non-Warlock, conventional) patron. And I'd instanced that as an example of a GM move that caused me to leave a game (or, to be more precise, to let a game die). But this discussion of warlock patrons and backgrounding has only reinforced my preference. I have zero interest in RPGing with a GM who sees the point of the game to drive his/her personal plot preferences in disregard of the protagonism of the players. And the idea that the player of a cleric, warlock etc is getting some "unfair advantage" if the GM doesn't muck them about with demands from god or patron is ridiculous. Why is RPGing better or more fun because the player of the cleric has goals set for her by the GM rather than herself? Which is what Lanefan and (I think) 5ekyu and others are talking about. EDIT: Here's another example: I don't think that's really what people are saying - they're saying that you must accept the complication those classes require. They don't typically involve MUST take certain actions by DM force - rarely does a paladin even face that. Rather, that you MUST accept the consequences of the way you play your character, or of the choices you make, when they interact in certain ways with the classes you've chosen or the situation around you. I think your spin on it really is a mischaracterization - and an extremely uncharitable one at that.How is RPGing better because the GM threatens to stop you playing a paladin, warlock or whatever - "consequences of the way you play your character" - unless you pursue XYZ side quest or barmaid rescue or whatever it is the GM decides would be fun. To me that just seems like the pits. Can the GM not think of some way to challenge my PC which speaks to what I envision as my PC's goals...

Saturday, 13th October, 2018

  • 06:41 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    Is someone actually saying they're going to forbid someone from taking the class or just saying they aren't signing on to a player wanting to hand-wave the complications inherent in the class? Yes. 5ekyu has flat out said, and others have said too, that if you want to play a class, you MUST accept everything about that class or don't play that class. So, if you play a warlock, you MUST accept that the DM has control over your patron and can force your character to do things. If you play a paladin, you MUST accept that the DM can force you to take certain actions. If you play a class with a pet or a race the DM thinks is weird, you MUST accept that the DM can (and by implication will) force play onto you. The only option the player has is to choose another class or not play in that game. That's been repeatedly stated.
  • 06:30 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    ...ng to make sure a barmaid gets out, a certain member of the milita gets out and one of the bad guys lesser minions gets out - with appropriate "recompense" per the agreement reached at pact signing. What horror? So much abuse! How will our warlock player survive? go figure. Sure, and by and large I agree a fun little bit might be for the Patron to ask the Warlock to do something. Heck, if I was playing the warlock, I would welcome these things. But, your player has specifically told you that NO, he does not enjoy these things. He does not want this. He absolutely hates this. And your answer, apparently is, "Well, don't play that". Me, I tend to be a little more flexible and simply realize that not adding that fun little bit, which isn't actually fun for that player, does cost me anything. I just... don't do it. That's, honestly, what I find so baffling here. The player has told you very clearly what he or she doesn't like and the response, not just yours 5ekyu but others, is, basically to tell the player to either suck it up or play something else. Personally, I don't find that level of inflexibility conducive to good gaming. IME, it inevitably winds up with frustrated players and DM's. BTW, I'm really not trying to shift goalposts here. I'm just trying to find a way out of the weeds because, frankly, as I say, most of this stuff already happens at the table. Stuff gets Backgrounded all the time. Do you actually track spell components? Do you insist on tracking food and water outside of very specific circumstances? Do you really futz about with all the little stuff? Me, I generally just take that sort of stuff as written and move on because it's not fun for my table to be OCD about it. I was using the AP's as an example because it's something that many of us either play or have played. It's a shared experience. My point being that in fairly bog standard campaigns, this sort of stuff gets shelved anyway and this reaction to the...

Friday, 12th October, 2018

  • 07:45 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    On the Enterprise. I was a bit curious about this, so, I did a bit of Wikipedia diving. Of the first three seasons of Next Generation, there are 74 episodes. Of those 74 episodes, 14 actually feature the Enterprise as anything other than just a background set - either the ship is threatened directly, taken over by aliens, or is somehow central to the plot of the episode. So, 14 out of 74 stories would be affected by Backgrounding the Enterprise. That means that 80% of the stories could be told. A bit high, perhaps, but, really, considering that it's still a pretty small minority of stories, is that really all that unreasonable of the player? The DM still has 80% of the stories to work with. It's not like the DM suddenly cannot run the game. And the changes that I actually proposed - backgrounding a motorcycle, a single PC's Patron, a single PC's pet, are not going to impact a campaign to anywhere near that degree. 5ekyu seems to be arguing that any limitation on the DM is too much, but, do people really feel that's true? That a DM needs to not have any limitations placed upon the campaign by the players when at least one of the players would actively not enjoy that other 20%? How is this unreasonable?
  • 07:20 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    ...her play or run a game they donít want to play. And also, why should any one player have a veto over the whole groupís game choice when we can still be friends otherwise? Maybe because I don't get a lot of game time, so, telling one player, "nope, sorry, the rest of us want to play this, see you in about six months or a year when we're done" is a pretty dick move. I mean, I only game once a week. I game with a group. If the group decides to play something and one player opts out, that p layer isn't gaming for a while. I'd much, MUCH rather that we all get to play rather than decide that my fun is more important than yours. I dunno, that sounds like an incredibly dick move to me. Ejecting a player just because you want to play something else? Not really groovy in my book. For a one shot? Sure, ok, no worries. But for something as long as a campaign? Yeah, the group is more important to me than getting to play something that I know my friend hates. See, that's where 5ekyu's seafood example fails. It's one thing to go to a movie or eat at a restaurant. That's one day. No harm no foul. But if you tell your friend that hates seafood, "Hey, we're going to eat at a seafood restaurant EVERY TIME we get together for the next 6 months to a year. " that's not a friend that I want.
  • 12:59 AM - Hussar mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    ...grounder when I want it to be. Your bear can still apparently be benefit in the woods (help in fights, track be scents etc) but when having that bear might be an impediment in town you get to cut away those deficits that would naturally as part of the setting get in your way. No need to worry about the obvious hubbub a bear in town might cause when that's the goal- cake with eat-it-too icing, mmmmm. Just like apparently theft--proof motorcycles for free in VtM, you are not backgrounding the bike, just the bad stuff that comes with having a bike - it seems. Seems to me this is the kind of "gaming the system" kind of thing some commenters were concerned about. In our last dnd game, when we were attacked in caravan on the road the raiders killed the horses and when we abandoned those wagons we lost a lot of gear... man if only we had backgrounded our caravans against theft Sure enough the Enterpise should have been backgrounded against takeover by aliens. Yup, you got me 5ekyu. It's all about power gaming despite example after example showing that it's not. The player just wanted a cool bike. He liked the image. But, he didn't want to spend table time screwing around protecting it. So, we placed it in the background and off we go. Whoopee. He's got a motorcycle. Man, in a game with immortal vampires who can rip the side out of a tank, that's totally game breaking. :uhoh: But, let's run with the Enterprise example. Say we're running an SF game where the PC's have a spaceship. But, the players don't want to futz about with the spaceship being the center of attention. It's just something they use to go from A to B and a base of operations. Kind of like how no one steals/takes over the Millenium Falcon. Or Luke's X-Wing. Or any number of other space ships that appear in SF serials. How is the game harmed by placing the Enterprise in the background? The players are telling you, again, quite clearly, that they don't want the action of the c...

Tuesday, 9th October, 2018

  • 10:09 PM - Sadras mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    So 5ekyu it's not ok to boost a dragon's hit points by 50 in the middle of a combat, but the DM has free reign to mess around with pc backstory and push/force his plot. Still not your thing tho? :confused:
  • 02:10 PM - Maxperson mentioned 5ekyu in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    I have to agree with 5ekyu on this one. If you are going to pick a class that has obligations(cleric, paladin & warlock), you have to expect that obligations will come knocking at some point. The warlock class even has a section called Sworn and Beholden, which says this gem, "More often, though, the arrangement is similar to that between a master and an apprentice. The warlock learns and grows in power, at the cost of occasional services performed on the patronís behalf.". If you don't want to be treated like an apprentice and obligated to perform services for you patron, don't pick warlock. If you don't want to be obligated to the church and your god to do things, don't pick paladin or cleric.


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Monday, 12th November, 2018

  • 03:23 PM - DEFCON 1 quoted 5ekyu in post Brand new DM to 5E and many concerns...
    Actually, funny story In the last 5e game i played the Gm was hung up on my sorcs 1d10 firebolt. not a game went by with him not commenting on how much damage it did just made no sense etc... also had shocking grasp for those close-in moments. not a peep. Also had dagger for d4+3 which averages the same as a d10 but without the low or the high - not a peep. Got to be funny. It's like some old-school DMs just can't handle the idea of low-level wizards actually doing any appreciable damage until they've reached a level where they have enough spell slots to pretty much cast real spells every round in every combat. To them, if a wizard is out of slots, they should just be doing like at maximum 1d4 damage a round, whether that be from cantrips or a using sling. ;)
  • 03:21 PM - Maxperson quoted 5ekyu in post What's the point of gold?
    "That sort of thing doesn't cut it for me as a player or DM. I feel that choices should be made with roleplaying in mind first, and mechanics second. " I prefer for both to serve as valid decision making points and to not clash. Yeah. That's why I said roleplaying first, and mechanics second, which indicates that both are valid for decision making, but one has priority over the other. Not clashing is also a big issue for me, which is why I used the example that I did. ASIDE I rememer AD&D having DMG charts on jewels, art, etc as tressure from way back. Clearly, no inherent bonuses to painting vs gp but that level of definition added some sense of setting vs sense of commerce. I like that feel. Going back to what lowkey13 has been saying. I still use those charts. And the dungeon dressing charts. I use Central Casting Dungeons sometimes when I build dungeons. There are lots of resources out there from days gone by that are still very helpful to DMs.

Sunday, 11th November, 2018

  • 08:02 PM - criticalfumble quoted 5ekyu in post Scaling for a large group
    Food for thought! Within reason I can probably soft pedal some moderately more difficult monsters, especially if the players haven't seen them before to know what they could do "full throttle", but I should think carefully about which high CR monsters I choose. One of the more solid bits of advice from the CR system is that the CR are a threshold based system and throwing higher CR at parties risks unexpected results due to the adversaries being able to do things the PCs cannot counter. this can be from spells that they cannot cope with or from just a high level of damage in single turns. Consider what a few counterspells from an 8th level caster would do to the primary caster of a 5th level group. if it managed to eliminate those two (maybe four if there are two arcanists) 3rd level attacks then that is a lot of offense from the party just gone and no chance of it failing as the PCs have no 4th level spells. Consider how things will go if even one CR7-8 monster scores a crit on one of ...

Friday, 9th November, 2018

  • 08:04 PM - Maxperson quoted 5ekyu in post What's the point of gold?
    Yup but that wouldn't be any better if the "activity" was the rogue moving off to go steal something and the fighter in heavy armor was left out either - i think we both agree there. I think an example of a Gm showing poor time management between players and characters at a game is a good example of bad GMing but not an example of a bad system. You would think, but my group seems to be very happy and content with having the stealth guy go scout, sometimes for up to an hour of game time, and sometimes getting spotted and running back after having the stuffing beat out of him. I move the time to others while he is scouting if they are doing something for me to go back to, but a fair amount of the time, they are just sitting there waiting for the scouting report. Campaigns where they are all stealth or where there is no stealth PC tend to move better in my opinion, but as long as the players are happy, I'm happy(with a few exceptions). When i ran VtM games, there would be entire se...
  • 05:07 AM - MechaTarrasque quoted 5ekyu in post Bolstering Wizards
    "The summoned creatures are friendly to you and your companions.†" Go ahead and tell us how it was so friendly that as soon as the coercion stopped it was still friendly. But wait, I have a quote too: "If your concentration is broken, the elemental doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the elemental, it becomes hostile and might attack .It can't be dismissed by you, and disappears 1 hour after you summoned it. " I think my quote trumps yours.

Thursday, 8th November, 2018

  • 10:00 PM - smbakeresq quoted 5ekyu in post Bolstering Wizards
    But let me ask, if conjure elementals reached very similar danger beasties and had similar casting time etc yto call demons - then dont you end up with just two different flavors of the same spell? Is it really *taking a different spell* if they produce almost identical outcomes? I am not arguing for having two summons at the same level where one is clearly better, but a mechanical nose count comparison of "which is better for combat" is not gonna lead to a bigger spell lists, just a list of more spell names for the same small number of results, right? To me (I agree that if the demon spell drawbacks dont come up it's too much better than the elemental ones ) I would want spells to differentiate between friendly summons and hostile summons much more than they do. Hostile demon - short duration 1m - if three saves made its released. Orders take bonus actions. Friendly elemental - duration 8 hours with concentration but when conc fails 1m left. Orders no action. Conc over or la...
  • 09:37 PM - Sword of Spirit quoted 5ekyu in post Are monsters with legendary and or lair actions supposed to be boss monsters/
    2 - Altering stat blocks is just one way, one option a Gm has to adjust an ecnounter to better suit the specifics of their campaign and their PCs. it is not required at all. Instead one might use more monsters or higher power monsters or more terrain factors etc etc etc. The key is *like almost if not every RPG made* 5e does not claim or try to provide any sort of guarantee about encounter threat that is not at its heart and sole GM chooses threats appropriate to his group. I'm not sure we have as much disagreement here as it looks like you're seeing. 3 - So Ok you throw out a lot of other games and so you wont use them to support your claims? OK. personally, i find an awful lot of my experience from those other games helps and applies when running DnD and vice-versa. I generally approve of getting actual specific examples, but in this case I just don't have them because D&D is designed differently than other games I have actual play experience in. I would love it if I had had an...
  • 05:39 PM - Hawk Diesel quoted 5ekyu in post Revamping the Warlock
    It also resolves a few multi-class wrinkles between pact magic and other classes. Yea, I hadn't considered it at first, but it would go a long way to eliminating the palilocks and the coffeelocks. Honest question: How is the Warlock meant to be played? It's a fair question. I think the way it is presented is that Warlocks should play similarly with similar roles to Sorcerers or Wizards, when in reality I see them being more equivalent to Rogues or Monks. I'd play it, certainly, but I'd lean in a different direction. I would do this: 1) Give Warlocks half-caster progression, and remove Mystic Arcanum. 2) Half-casters don't have cantrips, so warlocks get Eldritch Blast as a 1st level class ability. (Tome warlocks can get other cantrips, if desired.) Bake in Agonizing Blast as part of the class feature. The 2nd beam is gained at Warlock 5th, and the 3rd beam at Warlock 11th. Since Eldritch Blast isn't a cantrip, its scaling is handled as a class feature. 3) Roughly do...
  • 04:00 PM - Quartz quoted 5ekyu in post Changing the Shield spell
    Too much duration tracking for my taste. I disagree: put a stack of chips in front of the player. There won't be many. It's not a Concentration spell. And I don't feel like encouraging wizards to burn high-level spell slots on personal defense is good for the game. Except in extremis, who is going to burn a 9th level slot on this? I could envision burning a 7th level slot to protect against Mordenkainen's Sword. I'd rather see those slots used to do something (ideally, something with a possibility of entertainingly dangerous side effects). Entertainingly dangerous? Oh yes! Do tell. What about just granting resistance to force for the duration? Blade Ward is a cantrip that grants Resistance; making Force Ward a cantrip that grants Resistance is a no-brainer. Drop the extended duration and the level limit altogether imo. Let "do they have shield" be an issue of eorry. So you'd let Shield make you immune to Mordenkainen's Sword for one round? Yes, I could dig t...
  • 03:59 PM - Andr√© Soares quoted 5ekyu in post Bolstering Wizards
    Thought... A second concentration spell is in effect a second concentration spell effect being run each round. It's close to adding one more spell working a round per caster. Would a compensation feat for the non-casters be z feat that gave one more attack per turn? I think it's hard to translate spells in to attacks, because the effects of one spell may vary a lot depending on the caster's choices. A lot of the concentration spells have the power of removing enemies from the combat, so, having 2 casters with double concentration would make combat trivial in a lot of instances, while giving an extra attack to the fighter and barbarian would make it easier, but not trivial.

Wednesday, 7th November, 2018

  • 05:34 PM - mrpopstar quoted 5ekyu in post 5E's "Missed Opportunities?"
    When I have seen this tried in actual play it tended to go to one of two unsatisfactory results - 1 everybody had and used the "same spells as far as results but the cosmetics were different leading to essentially a devaluing of the six choice itself. My +3 AC spell is from conjured swarms of animals or insects interesting and making it harder to get clear shot. Your is a force shield. The other guy's is an illusion fuzzy thing. My fireball is a fireball but the summoner has an insect stinger ball and the charmer has a painball etc all do 8d6 in 20'r etc.Eh, everybody uses the same choice spells anyway. And I'd prefer to remove fire ball from the enchanter spell list altogether. Wizard and enchanter are different things in my view. 2 There are actual hard core meaningful differences between them but that results in some being reduced to niche charscters better served up as NPCs because they dont cover as many of the necessary elements as several others (necessary from campaig...
  • 03:49 PM - Stalker0 quoted 5ekyu in post Are monsters with legendary and or lair actions supposed to be boss monsters/
    So, let me ask of those who see "adjusting stat blocks" as a system failure for a 5e game - for a displacer beast (HP 85 (10d10 + 30)) would you see choosing to have your displacer beast at 65, 95 or 125hp be "not using the stat blocks" and a failure? Do you see the average values as mandatory to be used or just a quick option if you want to use them? Cuz, in my experience, choosing the HP within the allowed range of the stat block goes a long way towards adjusting the encounter difficulty to the specifics of your group and not running into out of bounds results due to party and circumstance specifics - especially by the time solo/boss/lair/legend critters are in play with a group you have been playing for a while. I think it comes down to degrees. Modifying a stat block here and there is par for the DM course, but if you find your having to do it continuously to generate threat that suggests something is off. And that's where I find myself. I've run 3 5e campaigns, with both vets and ...
  • 01:31 PM - Sadras quoted 5ekyu in post What's the point of gold?
    For others who see real value in the options presented for uses of gold in their campaign (many examples have been put forth already) the gold system adds a lot of potential to their gameplay. This is not at all unlike any the difference between a group who preferred and chosen gameplay focuses primarily or exclusively on dungeon crawls and combat who then see charisma and social skills as not meaningful because they do not provide combat bonuses. They might see the lack of defined Deception checks for feinting/advsntage or Intimidation checks to startle/stun as a "weakness" of the system. Maybe they see a lack of a tactics check INT to gain a reaction defense also as z shortcoming of the system. As I was typing my post I was thinking about Inspiration + Personality Characteristics on the same level but your dungeon crawling idea works for the social encounter aspect. But... in those cases, I am referring to a campaign. I am referring to a living world they continue to interact with ...
  • 08:13 AM - mrpopstar quoted 5ekyu in post 5E's "Missed Opportunities?"
    About the bold - IDK - they all face "as adventurers" very similar needs - so wouldn't they tend to have a lot of overlap in their spells? For which of them are Detect Magic and Shield and Light and Charm person not options they are likely to have wanted to have at some point and developed spells for it? Seems to me what you would end up with is a lot of "same spell, different name, minor tweak" and a bloated spell list.To oversimplify, I was thinking more along the lines of wizards casting spells that affect objects while witches cast spells that effect creatures and sorcerers cast spells that channel energy without any overlap of meaningful consequence. It would also be my preference that all casters use the same spellcasting mechanic for simplicity's sake. Overall I find spells and spellcasting to be cumbersome within an otherwise lean rule set. ó That's just me. :)

Tuesday, 6th November, 2018

  • 10:11 PM - Hawk Diesel quoted 5ekyu in post Banishing Eldritch Blast
    To mr cantrips are a class feature not some extra thing tossed in. So a camtrip that only exists on one class list for a class that has the option of choosing other class features to bolster it alone... that yo me is not requiring an extra investment as much as it is giving you the option to go more than that one way. I personally like that and wish more classes had such choices. Ymmv. Yes, cantrips are in themselves class features. But that also presumes that all cantrips are of a similar level of power. They are to some degree interchangeable. Just as all 1st level spells have some degree of balance against one another. But Eldritch Blast is mechanically different. Are there other cantrips limited to a single spellcaster list? Sure! We have Vicious Mockery for the Bard, Shillelagh for the Druid, and Sacred Flame for the Cleric, just to name a few. However, do any of these cantrips get even a fraction of support from the mechanics of their respective classes? No. And why is that? ...
  • 08:01 PM - Hawk Diesel quoted 5ekyu in post Banishing Eldritch Blast
    First, i judge a system and its elements by itself - not how other games have done it in the past. 5e was built as its own package and i treat it as such - with minor allowances for its sacred cows. I disagree. We are talking about D&D in its 5th iteration. Each is built upon the last, and 5e seems to be the best example of an edition that took what works from the previous ones and tried to scrap what didn't. As such, we are not talking about a sacred cow like Ability Scores, and we are not talking about a game it is being built from the ground up in a vacuum without history or context to guide design decisions. We are talking about the common interpretation of what makes a Fighter, a Rogue, a Wizard, and so on. Each have their respective identities. You cannot have a Barbarian without some ability to rage. You cannot have a Rogue that does not Sneak Attack. You cannot have a Monk that does not use Martial Arts. Now how these things are reflected in the mechanics may change, but these are...
  • 06:17 PM - Hawk Diesel quoted 5ekyu in post Banishing Eldritch Blast
    Admitting from the outset that questioning a "feeling" might be considered pointless, but hey, when that feeling is a basis for a position, there is some merit to the question. This is more than just a feeling. If you look into my previous posts in this conversation, you will see that I go into extensive detail in the history of the Warlock since its initial appearance in 3.5. The key defining feature of the Warlock from the beginning has been Eldritch Blast and Invocations. I see Eldritch blast *as* a warlock class feature because... 1 - It exists only on the Warlock class spells list. The only way non-warlocks get it is thru "other class swiping" abilities other classes have or feats that allow that kind of thing. While this may be true, does a Bard need to give up a spell known for Bardic Inspiration? What does the Fighter give up for Action Surge, or a Rogue give up for Sneak Attack? Because a Warlock has to give up a very precious (because there are so few) cantrip slot fo...
  • 02:21 PM - Sadras quoted 5ekyu in post What's the point of gold?
    If one looks at Xsnathars one will find quite a few "tool" proficiency uses that provide benefits- including shoes, including meals, etc. off the top of my head. One can also find prices for skilled craftsmen services there iirc or maybe that was DMG. Bonuses to HP on HD spent, marching time extensions etc. Yeah I recently acquired it. Just have to invest the time to go through it, life being a little too chaotic of late.
  • 11:20 AM - clearstream quoted 5ekyu in post Bolstering Wizards
    I am seeing a pattern tho - both this thread and the warlock malaise one took a rather amorphous feeling of a problem of satisfaction and went straight at major changes to hard core mechanics and output as a "proposal" to fix the feel. Not really. I have extensive reasons behind what I suggest. A strategy I use to swiftly prop-up or knock-down a concept is to peg it out near the edge of the envelope. And avoid investing time in precision costings and so on, until after I can sound out if it is reasonable. To give some insight, if we ask ourselves "How might we cause more interactions across things Wizards can do" and consider landmark games such as Cosmic Encounter which basically nailed the answer: we look for combinatorial strategies. Concentration blocks combinatorial strategies (by one character, in regard to their Concentration spells). Many contemporary games benefit hugely from combinatorial mechanics: it's one of the most important discoveries in gaming of the last century. Wizards ...
  • 04:08 AM - Sword of Spirit quoted 5ekyu in post Are monsters with legendary and or lair actions supposed to be boss monsters/
    Re the bold, we have extremely different expectations for what "does work" means for an RPG. Does chess "work"? By that i mean that if any two players of any two strengths sit down and play it by the rules they will get a competitive match? Chess is a simple board game with a stock setup of pieces and absolutely defined playspace etc - surely that can "work", right? An RPG is not a "board game" type thing and its objectives are not to be like it. As such a *lot* more choices are given to the players and a lot more is expected of the GM. Its the nature of the beast. There is no prescribed formula for "this will be that challenging" just a loose CR set of guidelines which go into how they are just guidelines. its an impossible task to an RPG to try and have it so that every monster as presented "works" (by whatever level of threat or endurance or interesting you want) for every group it might be able to face in every circumstances - so they do not actually try. Its all left to the Gm to d...


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