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Tuesday, 17th July, 2018

  • 09:28 AM - pemerton quoted Victim in post The roots of 4e exposed?
    If I had designed an encounter in a room that had a certain number of Orcs guarding a certain number of Pies and I had determined that the only way to win was for the Party to hit the Orcs X number of times before the Orcs hit them Y number of times then I would agree that does look a lot like a Skill Challenge.There are two things here - I had determined that the only way and hit the Orcs X times before the Orcs hit the PCs Y times. The latter is, more-or-less, what D&D combat looks like (where X and Y equals hit points divided by damage per hit). The former is about establishing stakes and modes of approach. There is nothing about a skill challenge as a mode of resolution that says that the GM must, or should, establish the stakes and the modes of approach (although it is likely that the GM will play some role in relation to this simply because, 4e being a fairly traditional game in its allocation of player and GM roles, the GM has a preeminent role as adjudicator of fictional positio...

Saturday, 14th January, 2017

  • 04:31 AM - pemerton quoted Victim in post Encounter balance in AD&D
    ...tempt to avoid a combat because that offered their best chance of success. If you design the challenge of avoiding said combat "To keep the XP and pacing about the same as I'd planned", then you undo the value of that choice. I strongly disagree. Wide variance in difficulty or rewards based on player strategy doesn't preserve the value and meaning of player choice, it destroys that value - essentially, you create a single correct choice. <snip> Similarly, if a diplomatic approach is just as hard as a fight, whether or not the PCs have good CHA, skill trainings, etc means something. The fact that the characters chose a non violent means of resolving the problem even if it wasn't any easier tells us something about their values. If talking is easy, then PCs can get through without strong social skills, and all that their choice tells us about the characters is that they're expedient. When one choice is obviously superior, going for it is a pretty trivial decision.I agree with Victim. If you want a player-driven game, the situation has be framed by the GM so that the players have a range of mechanically viable choices, and the choice they actually make - and hence the resulting outcome, whether success or failure - reflects the players interests/desires/concerns. If the GM frames the situation such that there is an objectively cleverer or more effective solution, then (i) the only value that is recognised and rewarded is expedience, and (ii) the game essentially becomes a GM-driven game in which the job of the players is to solve the puzzles and hence hit upon the expedient solution.

Friday, 23rd December, 2016

  • 04:39 AM - pemerton quoted Victim in post last encounter was totally one-sided
    ...d attempt to avoid a combat because that offered their best chance of success. If you design the challenge of avoiding said combat "To keep the XP and pacing about the same as I'd planned", then you undo the value of that choice. I strongly disagree. Wide variance in difficulty or rewards based on player strategy doesn't preserve the value and meaning of player choice, it destroys that value - essentially, you create a single correct choice. <snip> if a diplomatic approach is just as hard as a fight, whether or not the PCs have good CHA, skill trainings, etc means something. The fact that the characters chose a non violent means of resolving the problem even if it wasn't any easier tells us something about their values. If talking is easy, then PCs can get through without strong social skills, and all that their choice tells us about the characters is that they're expedient. When one choice is obviously superior, going for it is a pretty trivial decision.I agree with Victim. The less there difference to prospects of success the choice of tactics/approach makes, the more it expresses the values of the players (either outright, or in character as their PCs). Conversely, the more that the prospects of success are responsive to choices of tactics/approach, the more that those choices reflect the means/end rationality (ie the expedience) of the players. An additional dimension in the latter case is whether the GM has set it up on purpose, or not. If the GM has done so, then the players making the "right" choice also shows their ability to respond to and follow GM cues. And a final thought, that links this part of my post with the previous (about mechanics): if the players have reasonably deep pools of resources, then you can combine the two approaches. That is, players can express their values by choosing to expend resources to make their preferred approach viable. For instance, in this session, the player of the fighter PC spent resources to succeed on ...

Tuesday, 7th July, 2015

  • 10:34 AM - pemerton quoted Victim in post Why does 5E SUCK?
    You are playing bait and switch here. The conversation I was referencing was about shifting DCs for static challenges, not the ease of setting (or re-setting) that DC.The only person who is talking about changing DCs for the very same fiction (which I think is what you mean by a "static challenge") is you. Other posters, including me but also most of your interlocutors in this thread, have already explained why this is nonsensical in reply to a series of posts from Kamikaze Midget (the last one seems to have been post 917 upthread - the first one was a few pages before that). I've also just noticed that in post 1010, in reply to my comment in post 1008 that "the scaling cave slime is not the same stuff in the fiction. Locations of greater magical power, which are the sorts of places where paragon and epic PCs hang out and have their adventures, have more slimy slime", you replied I follow what you are saying. I think other people in this thread follow what you are saying.Give...

Sunday, 13th January, 2013

  • 11:50 PM - pemerton quoted Victim in post 4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
    ...l challenge (6 successes before 3 failures). in a "fiction-first" system, the players could attempt to avoid a combat because that offered their best chance of success. If you design the challenge of avoiding said combat "To keep the XP and pacing about the same as I'd planned", then you undo the value of that choice. I strongly disagree. Wide variance in difficulty or rewards based on player strategy doesn't preserve the value and meaning of player choice, it destroys that value - essentially, you create a single correct choice. <snip> if a diplomatic approach is just as hard as a fight, whether or not the PCs have good CHA, skill trainings, etc means something. The fact that the characters chose a non violent means of resolving the problem even if it wasn't any easier tells us something about their values. If talking is easy, then PCs can get through without strong social skills, and all that their choice tells us about the characters is that they're expedient.I think Victim is completely correct here. The purpose of level scaling in 4e is to ensure that other dimensions of play - the tactical decision making Raith5 referred to upthread, and also the desire to spare a bear's life, that mattered in the example I've just given - become the focus of play. One result is that 4e is not the best RPG for a world exploration game. But world exploration is not the only thing that can be done with an RPG.

Victim's Downloads

  Filename Total Downloads Rating Files Uploaded Last Updated
PF 2 Test Sombrefell battlemap recording
Round by round tactical maps
213 0 13 Wednesday, 15th August, 2018, 07:56 PM Wednesday, 15th August, 2018, 07:56 PM

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