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As many surely have noticed, the boards have gone down a couple of times the last few days.
A discussion here at the temporary boards asked why, and what we can do about it.
Why do they go down? Well, essentially there are too many of us
The current servers at EN World cannot take the load, in particular during US prime time (late afternoon, early evening).
So, in essence, EN World needs money for upgrades.
How can we best assure that it gets that money?
There are a lot of us here at EN World, and somebody said, overat the temporary boards, that all it takes is about $1 a month from each of us.
[Edited link so that it works.]
__________________ Henrix
Last edited by Henrix; 19th April 2002 at 04:45 AM..
Some possibilities... though not necessarily good ideas.
* Arrange a "deal" with a big network, like I did with RPG Planet. Drawback is you have no control over your advertisements, "unlimited bandwidth" means "as much as we can give you and when you take an 'unfair amount' we'll shut down your message boards when we feel like it," and no guarantee that Russ would be able to arrange a deal to bring in income.
*Arrange a "deal" with a big network, but only have part of the site there. Like maybe *just* the message boards. Some of the same problems as above. My thoughts would be something like GamingReport -- see if they're interested in hosting forums in exchange for something Russ can provide.
*Get the people who benefit most to cough up some cash. I think we all know who they are.
*try to get more advertising. Probably not hugely realistic. But the great untapped market I see is getting advertisers who DON'T do d20 products. Miniatures companies. The battle mat people. Other games. DVDs/Videos, etc.
*Branch out into more merchandising options. I don't know what Russ's deal is with RPG Shop but I made a pretty big chunk of money doing Amazon.com. Maybe he should consider a sweeter deal.
*accept the fact that the boards will die during certain times of the day and plan for it. Simply plan on always shutting the boards down between noon and 4pm central or somesuch, except maybe on weekends.
*look for other providers who might be cheaper.
*Help me win the lottery. I will donate a big chunk to this "charity."
*stop hosting message boards. Accept the fact that they just hog too many resources.
Just let us know how to contribute. I'll pledge $25. Let me know how I can get it to you. Many thanks for all you do and all these boards mean to the community.
__________________ My powers are beyond your understanding.
Just let us know how to contribute. I'll pledge $25. Let me know how I can get it to you. Many thanks for all you do and all these boards mean to the community.
Just let us know how to contribute. I'll pledge $25. Let me know how I can get it to you. Many thanks for all you do and all these boards mean to the community.
One of the very first links on the main page at http://www.enworld.org/ says Support EN World -- that's the link you want.
Originally posted by EricNoah Some possibilities... though not necessarily good ideas.
Most of these ideas make sense - though I'd hate to accept many of them. Still, it's good to know there are options out there.
Quote:
Originally posted by EricNoah try to get more advertising. Probably not hugely realistic. But the great untapped market I see is getting advertisers who DON'T do d20 products. Miniatures companies. The battle mat people. Other games. DVDs/Videos, etc.
This is a good point. I've often thought about advertising, but figured that the d20 companies were all but tapped out. Sure, the ads help them (increasing brand awareness and sales), but it takes time to realize this benefit. What can be done to increase our ad base?
I know that video games are also a good "related" field - is there any way to attract them?
Any thought to maybe doing some kind of fund raiser, maybe a raffle or some such thing. Maybe try and talk some of the RPG "celebrties" that post here into donating some autographed books and then raffle them off.
I think the whole situation has really reminded folks about donating too, so i'm sure that anyone able to will be donating, which should help a bunch.
I hope if we all work at this we can find a solution, so keep us in the know.
Thanks for all the thoughts, guys. It really means a lot to me.
One thing that I do promise is this - the boards will NOT disappear, no matter what I have to do! These are my opinions on "methods", though:
*Advertising is one option - I don't mind admitting that I'm not very good at that sort of thing, which is why the site probably doesn't get as much from ads as it could. I've tried hiring "ad managers" etc, but that doesn't tend to work out either. I'm definitely giving it more thought, though. The "other markets" thought is a good one, although I'm not sure how I'd go about it.
*Signing up with some other network is the very last option I want to consider. It may sound silly, but I'm proud of the fact that the site has to follow nobody's "rules". Especially since some of the networks etc. out there are very "business" oriented rather than fan-oriented.
*All of the fund-raising ideas are cool, but they are mainly short-term solutions. What needs to be somehow established is a steady income rather than a sudden influx of donations etc. We really need to look at this long-term rather than as an immediate problem that we're having right now.
*As has been suggested elsewhere - I will never require money from anyone to use the site or the boards etc. I am very, very strongly opposed to that idea.
*Affiliate programs etc. - as Eric mentioned, I have a deal with RPGShop. I really don't think I could get a better deal. It does bring in a noticeable amount of money, but nothing compared to the site's running costs. It's a drop in the ocean, to be honest (well, more than a drop - a sizeable splash, but still not somehting that really makes a big difference in the long run).
*Other providers - I'm currently using CI Host, which is the cheap-and-not-terribly-good end of the pricing scale. When you're already shopping at
Options that have been suggested that I'm considering (but have definitely not made a decision on) are:
*A voluntary periodic donation which earns users a cool custom title. This is feasible if it is embraced en-masse, but not if only a few people join in. The main drawback si that, although I can imagine initial enthusiasm for such an idea, I don't know if it would be maintained. And if it's not maintained and the (then increased) server payment can't be met one month then we're all, frankly, screwed. That one is a little too close to a gamble for my liking.
*The auction/lottery idea - I don't know if it would work. We'd need cooperation of all the publishers (and, to be honest, for somehting like that we'd need WotC onboard) and, like the previous option, it would need to be sustained.
Quote:
Get the people who benefit most to cough up some cash. I think we all know who they are.
If you're referring to who I think you are, I can't see it happening. It would be nice, though.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel. With things like Natural 20 Press going on, there will reach a point one day where it brings in a sizeable chunk of money. This is probably a good while off yet - the hard part is getting there!
You guys are all great. We'll be OK, don't worry about that. We've all been through harder times on this site, and we survived. We'll do it again. And again, f need be. We're going to be here for a long time to come!
I don't know if a deal with amazon.com would be better than the deal with RPG Shop, but maybe you'd get more people using it. The cost to deliver products to Europe are much lower at Amazon than at RPG Shop. The last order I've made (Deities & Demigods and Spells & Spellcraft) costs $59.87 at Amazon and $74.42 at RPG shop because of the delivery costs... I can't afford a 25% increase in the price of every book I buy and, as such, haven't been able to support EN World that way
__________________ The power of love cannot compete with the love of power. - M. Burns
There are 10 kinds of people in the world : those who understand binary, and those who don't.
*A voluntary periodic donation which earns users a cool custom title. This is feasible if it is embraced en-masse, but not if only a few people join in. The main drawback si that, although I can imagine initial enthusiasm for such an idea, I don't know if it would be maintained. And if it's not maintained and the (then increased) server payment can't be met one month then we're all, frankly, screwed. That one is a little too close to a gamble for my liking.
A related idea: Greg Stafford (creator of Glorantha, the world behind Runequest, Hero Wars & Heroquest) was trying to get the new system published after Runequest went into corporate limbo. He wanted to sell stock, but found out it wasn't feasible because of the related California laws.
What he ended up doing was selling membership in the "Glorantha Trading Association." For various levels of donations, you got certain benefits (see http://www.glorantha.com/gta/gta.html for the actual benefits for the donations). This was quite successful in getting Hero Wars out.
Perhaps something like this might be tried. Of course, a good amount of the interest for many is the access to some of the unpublished materials of Greg Stafford. There isn't much in the gaming world that has quite that level of mystique (Gygax & Kuntz's Greyhawk stuff is about the only d20 stuff I could think of right now).
Still, some sort of exclusive or early content might be worked out with some publishers (I'm sure many are quite glad at the business this site brings them). Perhaps early peaks at some of the Natural d20 press products. Maybe even some of the regulars could add some stuff. I'm sure some would pay to see some early materials from Piratecat's campaign or perhaps scans of Eric's early characters.
Of course, to keep the money flowing in, it would have to have periodic updates. It may not be feasible, or worthwhile. Still, it's a direction to consider. Even if just as a stop-gap until Natural d20 Press takes off.
The downside with something like the Glorantha Trading Association is that it creates a group of 'elite'*, who may, rightly or wrongly, feel that they are superior, and another group who feel that they are out in the cold.
(I am not saying anything against the GTA, mind, just stating what may happen. It was probably the right thing for them (us, I am part of the Glorantha community too) to do at the time. And it has worked out fine.)
I think Morrus is right to want to avoid that. The open, nice community here would probably suffer.
But I agree with poilbrun that Amazon perhaps is better for us Europeans, I balked at the RPG.shop freight too.
On the other hand I'd much prefer to support RPG.shop than Amazon. But as it is, I probably won't buy from either, I also want to support my FLGS.
* Or, as the case is, Elite, Elite+, and SuperElite, depending on how much you shell out. :rolleyes:
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I just made my donation. I have no problem donating 5 (actually (4.23 this month) bucks a months nor do I think it would be "tacky" to ask. Just put an anouncement somewhere and I'll do it every month. I gure this site is worth 5 bucks a month to me!
If we get titles,I would like to be Karaoke King of Central Jersey. A boy can dream can't he?
__________________ I've been through four editions now, I don't think I really knew the rules for any of them.
Originally posted by Henrix The downside with something like the Glorantha Trading Association is that it creates a group of 'elite'*, who may, rightly or wrongly, feel that they are superior, and another group who feel that they are out in the cold.
(I am not saying anything against the GTA, mind, just stating what may happen. It was probably the right thing for them (us, I am part of the Glorantha community too) to do at the time. And it has worked out fine.)
I think Morrus is right to want to avoid that. The open, nice community here would probably suffer.
But I agree with poilbrun that Amazon perhaps is better for us Europeans, I balked at the RPG.shop freight too.
On the other hand I'd much prefer to support RPG.shop than Amazon. But as it is, I probably won't buy from either, I also want to support my FLGS.
* Or, as the case is, Elite, Elite+, and SuperElite, depending on how much you shell out. :rolleyes:
In my opinion, there wouldn't be such an elite effect, I mean, there are already some people who thinks they are elite, and they would still think it
Seriously now, for your RPG needs in Europe, talk Derek (from Talon Comics ), his prices are the same or cheaper than RPG.shop, but the shipping cost much smaller. and he is a nice person. A really nice person. Try it and you will thank me.
And if you really want an European shop but you don't have a FLGS (or it doesn't have what you search), go to Orcsnest, a not very expensive (but more expensive than Talon) shop based on London.
i am all for doing an 'elite' mode for users. What that gives you as stated by someone on the ezboards is for $1/month or $10/year:
1. Avatar
2. Signature
3. Once a month lottery on a prize from one of the d20 publishers.
If you are not a member what do you get:
1. Post to the board
2. View the board
3. No avatar
4. No signature.
Look let's be real ALLOT of boards to this: Ars Technica, Slashdot, etc. all have boards that people pay to be 'members' for. Do they really gain anything? Not too much but it pays for the services that you provide morrus. What you are giving us is simple lil features and nothing more, so we have our avatar and a signature, yippie. Is that detracting from the boards? No. But it does provide incentive to sign up. Call it charity or donation or pay for play service but don't feel that you are taking away from anything. I feel this is a tried and true idea and has worked brillantly in the past. Charge us a copule of dollars a month, hell people pay $39.99+ to look at naked woman when you can get that for free online! What's $10 for a year of quality always up service??? Nothing.
Don't think you are going to be catering to the 'elite' people who say "I paid so there nyah nyah nyah". On arstechnica you get a custom title stating "Ars Subscriber" When you subscribe you get "D20 Subscriber" or some title.
Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind paying $US1 or even $5 a month (or even more, depending) to use the boards. I can understand Morrus's desire not to split the community or require a payment to use the boards, but at the same time, I think the user-pays principle is going to have to come in somewhere down the line.
A good compromise might be to allow browsing and a limited post count for free (say 30 posts per month, or whatever number is deemed most appropriate). People who post regularly and often should be willing to stump up at least some money for the privilege. Speaking as one of the heavier board users, I have no problems with putting my money where my mouth is.
I don't think making things like avatars and sigs available only to financial members is necessary or a good thing. I post because I think I have something interesting to say, or to contribute to the online community (even if it's just more IYKWIM posts). I'm willing to pay to support that, not for the frill of sigs and avatars, or for the frisson of being in an "elite". Making sigs and avatars contingent on paying money just makes them into visible status symbols, which in turn encourages division in the community, which isn't good for anyone.
I'm not sayng that this will happen, but to avoid people going off on tangents that can't happen, here are the things that can be switched on/off for individual members by this software:
Custom titles
Search
Modify profile
Rate threads
Post attachments
Post polls
Vote on polls
Use private messaging
View Who's Online
Access to specific forums
That's it. No way to select avatars/sigs for certain people. There are a whole bunch of other things, but they are so fundamental (read thread, edit on thread etc.) that they're not worth even considering. Limited post counts aren't possible to do, and I would never consider that anyway.
Bear in mind also that some of the above can't be done prior to a server upgrade (Search, Who's Online, Private Messaging etc.).
Anyway, that's what's possible - don't read that as "that's what's going to happen".
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