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This is a thread. It's a serious thread and it's an important thread. This is the thread where to discuss the commercialisation of EN World, something I know there are split feelings about. Write your opinions of the subject here, before it's too late.
Here is my opinion; Commercialisation might be the wrong word here, anyway, I think it's a GREAT idea! It's indeed a very smart way to deal with server costs and things like that, to keep EN World going on and on and on forever. Think about it! I can see more competitions, updated software, faster servers - everything good! Lots of credits to Morrus and RPG Shop for this move
So, what are your opinions? I mean, this is a chage and there are always opinions on changes. What do you think, is it good, bad, ugly? Write it all in here!
Sincerely
- Psionicist
Last edited by Psionicist; 31st January 2002 at 02:46 AM..
It's the side of things that I don't like. It changes running this site from a hobby to 'work'.
But the sad fact is that I need to dip into various pies in order to cover basic costs - hopefully I can make sure that all of those pies are useful and/or relevant to the people who visit. I'm fairly strict on the ads I'll accept, for example, although it would be possible to raise more funds by lowering those standards.
And also, the shop is something that has been requested time and time again. I would have liked to work with Derek (Talon Comics) on it, as he is a long-standing community member, but he wasn't tempted by the idea, unfortunately.
I certainly don't think there's anythign wrong with making branded merchandise available, and pumping the revenue back into the site. These things arent cheap.
Really, it's the same principle as making a donation to a PBS station. You pay some money, get a nifty item, and support something you like at the same time.
The only real issue is the matter of sustainability - EN World is a fairly small community. Will it be long until everyone who wants branded merchandise will have bought it?
Really it's the same deal as when I was pimping Amazon.com. As long as it's not "in your face" all the time, and as long as the site maintains a high level of integrity (which is certainly has thus far), I see no problem with it. People have long had a choice between their local game shops, chain book stores, big online merchants like Amazon, little online merchants like Talon, and now they have one more choice. If it means the site can stay open and continue to be a resource to the D&D community I'm all for it.
The one argument I could see against it would be in the area of tying the review system too closely to the purchasing system. In the short run an unscrupulous person might be tempted to make sure the good reviews got seen and the bad ones didn't, to increase sales. Over the long run, though, the integrity of the site (the honesty to say "this product sucks, don't buy it even if I would make money off of the sale") will be what attracts repeat visitors and repeat buyers. I'm sure we'll have no problems in this arena.
Finally I would urge Morrus to be careful -- if your new business partner isn't shooting straight with you at some point, be ready to cut them lose. They need you more than you need them.
Originally posted by Umbran I certainly don't think there's anythign wrong with making branded merchandise available, and pumping the revenue back into the site. These things arent cheap.
Well we're not just talking about EN t-shirts here, Morrus will be opening an e-commerce deally where he will partner up with an online store to sell stuff through his site, get a commision, etc. I think that's more the thrust of Psionicist's question.
Commercialization of best game site on the net, if it means the site stays open: GOOD.
I can think of at least one community project that will result in either a free product or an inexpensive product where the limited profits go back into this community rather than someone's pocketbook.
Of course, in my ideal world the ecommerce portion of ENWorld gets split up by system, then by category (setting/module/expansion, for example). Because, just, DAMN it is a stone-cold bizzich trying to keep track of what is out there. There's gotta be like 10 products I'd buy if I could just remember what they were
The "sorting by publisher" structure 'suxxors' or whatever. It is just a HORRID idea when it comes to a web store. DON'T DO IT! JUST SAY NO!
__________________ "Ta quel tanya edan gurthauya ten' ho ardhon"
The 13 Kingdoms - Generously hosted by EN World, T13K is a free community-run 3.0/3.5 campaign setting (or you can just hijack it).
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I see commercialization of ENBoards as at worst a neutral thing, and at best a great thing. Either I like none of the products but other people do, and they support the site with their purchases, which works out fine for me because I can just ignore the buying/selling parts and the site still gets supported; or I like some of the products, in which case the board is supported and I get some cool new thing for D&D!
If it keeps the site open and helps Morrus, good.
If I can buy cool stuff, even better.
Originally posted by EricNoah
Well we're not just talking about EN t-shirts here...
Yes, as I have just discovered. Serves me right for reading the Meta forum first, I guess
The principle is mostly the same - you can sell branded T-shirts, cupcakes, gaming materials....
As you note, there are a number of folks hereabouts who are actually in the business of making RPGs. But if the store's operation does not influence the review section or the message boards, there should be no issue.
After all, it's really no different than letting, say, Amazon.com advertise at the site (except that this is probably more efficient, economically. If it's run as yet another service - making rpg stuff available to the community, it should be a bonus
Well as a full blown capitalist myself i gotta say I am all for it... provided of course that the selling of merchandise does not change the way the rest of the board operates.
I can't see anyone having complaints about this other than some vague notion of it opening up the possibility of influencing the site in general or the review section specifically to try and increase sales. But that doesn't make the commercialization a bad thing. (If abuse happened, the abuse would be a bad thing, but I'm not even concerned that it might.)
I guess I don't know the whole story yet, but I have some suspsions. I have stong feelings about supporting my local game store. They are there for me, providing we with a place to meet other gamers, get goodies and all of the other cool stuff they do.
ENworld in all of its incarnations, does the same thing. I spend several hours of my work day checking various forums and looking at who is playing what. I socialize (some, I am kinda quiet). Why shouldn't I feel exactly the same for ENworld as I do for my local shop?
The more I think about it, the more the idea seems natural to me. I would hate to think of Morrus going bankrupt over my crack....I mean ENworld habit.
Hope to see an announcement soon.
__________________ Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. ~ Yoda
Every morning, when I arrive at work, I begin with the General forum, so I posted there what I should/would like having posted here:
Hey, Morrus, I think you've slipped now...
You live in U.K., right? I live in France. In this boards there are people from U.K., France, Spain, Sweden... All have the same problem when buying online: shipping costs!
At least $10-15 for a book, that means almost doubling the price!. But if we buy from a U.K. store shipping goes down to 1-2£ for UK citizens to 3-4£ for European... more interesting, not?
So, why, in the name of all European board members, base your online stuff in the US???? They already have hundres of online stores!!!!!! We, poor European, would have appreciated an UK based store. I'd had loved it!
So, please, Morrus, think about it, O.K.?
And, of course, nothing of the above can be considered an attack against yu or ENWorld. I know you spend hours and hours in here, making all of this work, and I thank you vehemently. You're great!
I'd only love an European ENWorld store...
Originally posted by Horacio Every morning, when I arrive at work, I begin with the General forum, so I posted there what I should/would like having posted here:
Hey, Morrus, I think you've slipped now...
You live in U.K., right? I live in France. In this boards there are people from U.K., France, Spain, Sweden... All have the same problem when buying online: shipping costs!
At least $10-15 for a book, that means almost doubling the price!. But if we buy from a U.K. store shipping goes down to 1-2£ for UK citizens to 3-4£ for European... more interesting, not?
So, why, in the name of all European board members, base your online stuff in the US???? They already have hundres of online stores!!!!!! We, poor European, would have appreciated an UK based store. I'd had loved it!
So, please, Morrus, think about it, O.K.?
And, of course, nothing of the above can be considered an attack against yu or ENWorld. I know you spend hours and hours in here, making all of this work, and I thank you vehemently. You're great!
I'd only love an European ENWorld store...
Unfortunately, I don't have a convenient warehouse full of RPG stuff in my back garden. This owuld require an already-existing online store to make a deal with.
If anyone knows of one who might be willing to do a similar deal for Europe, I'd be interested.
Unfortunately, I don't have a convenient warehouse full of RPG stuff in my back garden. This owuld require an already-existing online store to make a deal with.
If anyone knows of one who might be willing to do a similar deal for Europe, I'd be interested.
I know a pair of good online stores at U.K., maybe they would be interested. Send me an e-mail to this address if you're int'erested (let's hope you're ).
I know a pair of good online stores at U.K., maybe they would be interested. Send me an e-mail to this address if you're int'erested (let's hope you're ).
Well, I have to say once again the Horacigon has spoken with my voice also. I fully support the idea of an online store, but us people in Europe are constantly on the shaft-end of the stick. When Talon was first on here I saw it as a way to get cool stuff directly without having to hunt for it etc. etc. but the shipping really makes it hard for me. It's hard when you aren't living in London next to the Orc's Nest for example and of the people on the board the Europeans are usually the ones without a decent local store. Anyhow, I think a European shopping site would be a big advantage to us Morrus, and I know that in addition to me, at least 2 colleagues (who don't use the board) who use Amazon currently would also use this one.
-Will
__________________ "Traveller has always referred to the GM, DM, Keeper, Project Director, Stoyteller
or whatever other names you want to give this person - "Evil Sadist" is quite common -
as the Referee..." - T20 Handbook
"Better the heartfelt devotion of a free soul than the grudging obedience of a slave."
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For the record, I was interested in working out something but the last time I had heard anything regarding this was over 6 months ago. Between all the server moving, boards changing and things like that I honestly didn't expect anything like this to be remotely ready to be worked on.
But that's life.
EN World is a great place to hang out!
Hopefully I'll still be welcome here and things won't be any different than they have been. I still plan on doing what I normally do.
~Derek
__________________ Please come check out my store site at:
Originally posted by TalonComics EN World is a great place to hang out!
Hopefully I'll still be welcome here and things won't be any different than they have been. I still plan on doing what I normally do.
~Derek
And I hope you will continue doing it, Derek!
And I will continue buying from you, of course (For the record I've tried RPGShop.com once and their shipping charges to Europe are crazily high, and Derek's service and costumer care are top of the top!).
and of the people on the board the Europeans are usually the ones without a decent local store. Anyhow, I think a European shopping site would be a big advantage to us Morrus, and I know that in addition to me, at least 2 colleagues (who don't use the board) who use Amazon currently would also use this one.
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