How Do I? Guidelines for Spamming RPG General

[eyebeams]

Now that spamming General for purely marketing reasons is permissible as per [Mouse Guard] Luke gave us the first copy as a wedding gift! I'd like some guidelines so as to know the right and wrong way one goes about it.

[Morrus]

Ah, passive aggressiveness. My favourite character trait.

If you think you see spam, please use the report post button. Please don't come to Meta and practice your sarcasm - it's not endearing, and it's remarkably rude behaviour.

Thanks!

[eyebeams]

I'm not being passive-aggressive or sarcastic at all. Obviously, if threads like the above are legal, then there's no reason to complain about them.

If the term "spam" is discomforting, let's drop it, and call them "Threads With Marketing Objectives." Now that ENWorld is open to TWMO on General, what are the guidelines for them? Serious question.

[Darkness]

I think he wants to post spam and would like to know where we draw the line between acceptable and not acceptable.

Kevin made this post in the thread and then directed people to go to Meta if they have questions.

fake edit: Ah, eyebeams already posted while I was typing.

[doctorhook]

I'm not a moderator, obviously, but here's my opinion anyway. In the above case, I would consider it acceptable, and for two reasons:

1. It's a product relevant to the boards it's being discussed on. For example, it's appropriate to discuss an RPG product in General, but it's not appropriate to peddle Nike shoes or Viagra, because neither of those things is relevant to the General RPG board.
2. The product is presented through discussion, and the presenter is sticking around to participate in that discussion. It's not a two-line "Click here for cheap ____!" spam.

Additionally, I don't think it particularly matters if he has posted the same message on other forums; lots of forum-goers cross-post in order to reach a wider audience. I don't think this is a problem, so long as there aren't multiple redundant threads pushing the same product.

I don't think the poster in question was doing anything particularly wrong, and least not yet. We all discuss (and to some extent, push) our favorite RPG products on these boards; lots of authors and publishers participate here too, calling attention to their products. As long as it takes the form of reasonable discussion, and follows the existing rules for discussions, I don't see a problem with it.

[Morrus]

Originally Posted by eyebeams

I'm not being passive-aggressive or sarcastic at all. Obviously, if threads like the above are legal, then there's no reason to complain about them.

If the term "spam" is discomforting, let's drop it, and call them "Threads With Marketing Objectives." Now that ENWorld is open to TWMO on General, what are the guidelines for them? Serious question.

Fair enough - the thread title seemed fairly antagonistic to me, but if you say it wasn't meant that way then I apologise. Meta is often a venue for "I'm gonna be rude, but you can't say anything about it because I'm a 'customer' or something", and my position has always been that allowing people to be rude to me is worth less than any amount of money.

Spam isn't allowed. Neither are threads with the sole purpose of marketing, except in the PR forum.

The best thing to do is always to report the thread. Then we can look at it and decide whether it's marketing or a genuine fan talking about something he likes. Sometimes we might get it wrong; but that's not an excuse to decide it's OK - it's merely evidence that we make mistakes occasionally.

Regarding that thread - I hadn't looked at it - but I agree with what PC said. Maybe we're making a wrong call here by giving it the benefit of the doubt, but that's not to be viewed a precedent.

Does that help?

[Deset Gled]

Originally Posted by Morrus

Spam isn't allowed. Neither are threads with the sole purpose of marketing, except in the PR forum.

FWIW, I believe that this thread does not belong in the General forum. This is a PR post.

The game related part of the post is nothing but a plug for an upcoming game: the review contains no relevant details about the game, is completely one sided about how it is the "best game ever", and contains way to many exclamation marks. Also, it is from a person who is openly involved with the creators of the game, and works on viral game marketing (i.e. knows exactly how to use message boards to sell product). The fact that the poster follows up on the thread doesn't change the initial purpose of the thread, and doesn't distinguish him in any way from other posters who double as PR people who also follow up on their threads in the PR forum (TheLe, for example). If this post was about getting an advance copy of the game and letting people ask questions, it would be fine. If it was trying to start open discussion about a web comic or campaign setting, it would be fine. But it seems to be about nothing but presenting a new product and making people think it's good, which is marketing, and we have a place for it that isn't General.

The second part of the post, getting married, is also fine EnWorld content, but belongs in Off Topic.

I also understand that this is a borderline case, and that it's a tough call for the Mods.

[Umbran]

Originally Posted by Deset Gled

The game related part of the post is nothing but a plug for an upcoming game: the review contains no relevant details about the game, is completely one sided about how it is the "best game ever", and contains way to many exclamation marks.

Now, now. We are not going to start policing based upon level of enthusiasm or some subjective measure of "balance of reporting" - that way lies madness. And if you expect us to start policing based on grammatical style, perhaps we should mention that your post here was paragraphically challenged?

The fact that the poster follows up on the thread doesn't change the initial purpose of the thread

The initial purpose (as if we could read minds over the internet, and thus actually know the purpose for sure) is not a measure of the final value of the thread.

Folks should remember the point of having the divisions between forums. They are there to keep the place generally usable. As such, they don't always need to be hard and fast and kept to 100% precision with an iron fist.

[the Jester]

I have to say, imho, if the poster returns to the thread, it isn't spam.

Having just looked at the thread, Jenskot is engaging in discussion. This is not spam (again, imho).

I can see an argument that it crosses the line into shilling for a product, but it reads to me more like someone who is honestly excited and enthusiastic about what he thinks is a kick-ass game that also just happened to be his wedding gift- something, I suspect, that resonates in a deep and important place for him.

I give the thread a thumbs up.