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The first party is the seller, WoTC. The second party is us, the consumer.
Third Party means somebody else who ends up getting involved in the chain. The term third party is somebody who ends up making complementary or supplementary products that are somehow dependent on the first party's creation.
__________________
Forum FYI:
Kask is not the famous Tim Kask of the early days of TSR
I am that weird guy you see buried deep down in the credits section on many of EGGs later products.
Bizarrely, I just had this discussion with an old friend I'd gotten back in touch with. I had mentioned that I liked playing 4e, and he said that he had hated 3e and still played a house-ruled version of 2e.
I don't get it. It is very obvious that yes one game is better then the other. It doesn't matter what people think, the facts are thus: Changeling the Dreaming is better then Changeling the Lost.
Trolling points+++
(Changeling the Dreaming was a failure; Changeling the Lost is - rightfully - considered to be one of the best NWoD games)
I've seen several threads in the past week devolve into fairly vitriolic edition wars. Seems to me we had quite a long period of relative civility and good discussion. Things seem to be coming loose again. Maybe it's just me.
There are differences between Fourth Edition and earlier editions.
Why must every comment that mentions a difference be labeled WAR?
__________________ "Democracy must be something more than two gnolls and an elf voting on what to have for dinner."
Bizarrely, I just had this discussion with an old friend I'd gotten back in touch with. I had mentioned that I liked playing 4e, and he said that he had hated 3e and still played a house-ruled version of 2e.
Honestly, I wasn't quite sure what to say.
One of my players is a big 2e fan, and that's the one edition I don't like. Thankfully, we both enjoy 4e.
__________________ Member of Grognards for 4th Edition
(Changeling the Dreaming was a failure; Changeling the Lost is - rightfully - considered to be one of the best NWoD games)
Those are fighting words. I've successful had great multi year CtD campaigns. It was only a failure to people who were consumed by banality and truly dead inside.
There are differences between Fourth Edition and earlier editions.
Why must every comment that mentions a difference be labeled WAR?
It musn't. That was not implied. Note my use of the term "vitriolic" in the OP.
Not every thread that discusses differences between editions is an edition war. But all too often these threads become edition wars, when someone pipes in with "this edition sux, my favotire is the only god one!"
And yes, this should have been in Meta. Thanks for the move, mods.
__________________ Iain Fyffe
Original member of the Rouseketeers!
I have played 4E. And just like all other editions of D&D, it is awesome!
no one quotes me in sigs - Crothian
For some reason, this doesn't fill me with rage. I must be interwebbing wrong. - Cadfan
If Trail is the Gumshoe derivative, then I'll stick with Call (which in my book is simply nonpareil, but of course everyone has an opinion).
When D&Ders beat their glaive-guisarmes into ploughshares, we'll know it's time for something new, shiny and thoroughly incompatible with the last $1000 worth of game products you bought.
Then shall nostalgia driven 4E devotees take up the wailing and gnashing of teeth incumbent upon curmudgeons. Then shall 5E evangelists don the nerd mantle of insisting that every friend of theirs must like their new best friend just as much.
The big issue is that people have put emotional stock on 4e, be it for or against. Some people foam at the mouth whenever anything that could be taken as criticism is mentioned against anything that's remotely related to 4e or Wizards. Some people foam at the mouth whenever someone even thinks about suggesting that 4e might have even the smallest positive about it. it's not something you can solve with reasonable and enlightened debate, because it's not about logic or understanding. It's about "I'm right, they're wrong."
The worst thing about it isn't just that it's polarizing, but that it makes people on both sides groan and feel ashamed for liking D&D at all. If I want to have a nice, honest discussion about Pathfinder, I can't if someone runs up and yells in my ear how I'M WRONG OMG WAT DO U THINK UR DOING THIS GAME SUX SO MUCH. If I want to have a nice, honest discussion about 4e, I can't if someone runs up and yells in my ear how I'M WRONG OMG WAT DO U THINK UR DOING THIS GAME SUX SO MUCH. And again, whenever that happens, it disenfranchises people who might have legitimate complaints about either game, because suddenly they're being forced into taking sides.
Really, it's that last one that irks me so much - the idea that there has to be "sides." Nothing devolves a discussion further then forcing everything to be polarized into them vs us, with nothing in between. If there's anything involving the edition wars that needs to be permabanned, it's the notion that people need to take sides.
Edit: Oh yes, and Changeling: The Lost is far better then Otakukin: The Glamourbombing ;p
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Nothing devolves a discussion further then forcing everything to be polarized into them vs us, with nothing in between. If there's anything involving the edition wars that needs to be permabanned, it's the notion that people need to take sides.
Now, that's interesting. So, what do you think works better for a messageboard: One big forum to discuss both Pathfinder and all D&D editions, or separate forums to help separate threads into ones that people will find most interesting for what they want to play?
The first party is the seller, WoTC. The second party is us, the consumer.
2pp is PEOPLE!!!
(Someone had to say it.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piratecat
Now, that's interesting. So, what do you think works better for a messageboard: One big forum to discuss both Pathfinder and all D&D editions, or separate forums to help separate threads into ones that people will find most interesting for what they want to play?
Hey, personally, I really like the split of a General, and then edition specific forums for rule-specific threads. Because a lot of interesting discussion is edition neutral. (In fact, pretty much the only stuff I find interesting is typically edition neutral.)
Here's an interesting thought for you - how many of the people posting nastily are in the northeastern and midwestern United States? Because both areas have been having cruddy weather for a couple weeks now. Our normally sunny and pleasant late spring and early summer has turned into cloudy, rainy (occasionally floody) ick. It doesn't lead to good tempers. Especially not on what was a semi-holiday weekend.
Not that this is an outright cause for everyone, but an influence? Perhaps...
Anyway, along with P-cat, I'd like to see folks quit trying to work out their grudges, and get back to the business of playing the game. Talk about your game, or cool stuff to do in a game, or great funny bits for your game, or resources you found for your game.
I would love a week where nobody talked about anything on the boards that wasn't about playing the game.
Here's an interesting thought for you - how many of the people posting nastily are in the northeastern and midwestern United States? Because both areas have been having cruddy weather for a couple weeks now. Our normally sunny and pleasant late spring and early summer has turned into cloudy, rainy (occasionally floody) ick. It doesn't lead to good tempers. Especially not on what was a semi-holiday weekend.
Not that this is an outright cause for everyone, but an influence? Perhaps...
It's true that around Chicago this has been the worst few weeks leading into Summer in a long time. And this in a year when a lot of people cannot even take a typical vacation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbran
Anyway, along with P-cat, I'd like to see folks quit trying to work out their grudges, and get back to the business of playing the game. Talk about your game, or cool stuff to do in a game, or great funny bits for your game, or resources you found for your game.
I would love a week where nobody talked about anything on the boards that wasn't about playing the game.
Like post in the Fatherly Gaming Tales thread in honor of Father's Day -
And report threads where people appear to be trying to start up edition wars. The mods cannot be everywhere and when they see the patterns they will deal with the offenders.
Now, that's interesting. So, what do you think works better for a messageboard: One big forum to discuss both Pathfinder and all D&D editions, or separate forums to help separate threads into ones that people will find most interesting for what they want to play?
Eh, I don't think the sides are neccisarily 3e vs 4e, or even other editions vs 4e, though. I think the sides came about from some people being fanatical about hating 4e and needing others to do so, and others being fanatical about loving 4e and needing others to do so. I think "edition war" is somewhat of a misnomer as it implies editions fighting each other; on the contrary, I think the whole thing is about and just about 4e.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
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