Does he seem a bit lock-happy to anybody else?

[blackshirt5]

I was talking to a few friends, and I was wondering, because this came to mind: Does it seem like Eric Noah closes a few too many threads? I can understand closing the million and one BoEF threads and thinning the ranks down to one or two threads, but I've seen him close down a few threads lately that are kinda suspect. He closed down RakeRon's thread on April 29th, about the policy of a local high school on terrorist attacks, without giving a reason, simply saying, "not appropriate." I've seen him close down a few OT topics for no other reason than that they were OT(which his rules state that OT polls aren't allowed, but it says nothing about OT topics. IMHO, this board wouldn't be nearly as interesting without the OT topics.).

Does this seem a bit overboard to anybody else, or am I just going crazy?

[EricNoah]

Originally posted by blackshirt5

Does this seem a bit overboard to anybody else, or am I just going crazy?

It's the latter.

If you read the little announcement at the top of each forum, you can see that there are many reasons why a thread might get closed. Piratecat and I and basically all the mods have had an especially active week or so due to the various BoEF threads, and the somewhat less-than-ideal arguments/fights going on in those.

As far as the specificl thread mentioned -- it was clearly (to me, and I'm the one who makes the call, right?) a highly political thread that had nowhere to go but downhill from there. Sometimes I'm just guessing where a thread will be heading; most of the time, though, I pretty much *know* because of dealing with similar things in the past here on the boards.

Edit: w/regard to other OT posts closed -- I'm sorry but you'll have to point me to specific examples as I'm not aware of any that were closed simply for being off-topic. Most closures are either because people are being nasty to each other, or are beginning to drag politics into the discussion.

[blackshirt5]

I think that it's more than a bit arrogant to just say that you "know" how a thread is going to go. Do you know what's in RakeRon or for that matter anybody else's minds? Believe me, I know RakeRon(he's sitting nearby watching Angcuru play Robotech actually), and I've known him for years, and even I don't know what goes on in that freak's mind. However, I'll say that he wasn't being political, he was asking other people if they thought the school had bad policy. To say that it is "clearly" highly political is pretty false.

And why would it automatically be your call? Just because it used to be your site?

[EricNoah]

Originally posted by blackshirt5
I think that it's more than a bit arrogant to just say that you "know" how a thread is going to go. Do you know what's in RakeRon or for that matter anybody else's minds? Believe me, I know RakeRon(he's sitting nearby watching Angcuru play Robotech actually), and I've known him for years, and even I don't know what goes on in that freak's mind. However, I'll say that he wasn't being political, he was asking other people if they thought the school had bad policy. To say that it is "clearly" highly political is pretty false.

And why would it automatically be your call? Just because it used to be your site?

Because I'm one of the administrators here? I dunno, that's how it works -- each mod and admin has the authority to close a thread if he thinks it's going to be a problem or if it has become a problem.

Let me ask you this: how does a school set its policies? They're set by a school board. Where does the school board come from? School board members are elected officials. There's no way that conversation could have gone anywhere but political. So, to me, that means the thread was not appropriate for EN World.

[Tiefling]

Originally posted by blackshirt5
And why would it automatically be your call? Just because it used to be your site?

Because he's a moderator, silly.

[blackshirt5]

So, why were you chosen to be an administrator?

Personally, I'd like to see a bit more of a committee decision on locking threads, since apparently anything could be connected to politics using the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" style of reasoning that you seemed to use to close the aforementioned thread.

And if you looked at the thread, you would've seen that they were getting input from teachers, students, and many different areas of life, talking about school policy. It didn't HAVE to go political, you decided to make the assumption that it was gonna become political, even though it hadn't, and made what seems to be a fairly arbitrary decision to slam the gate on that thread.

[EricNoah]

Originally posted by blackshirt5
So, why were you chosen to be an administrator?

Personally, I'd like to see a bit more of a committee decision on locking threads, since apparently anything could be connected to politics using the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" style of reasoning that you seemed to use to close the aforementioned thread.

Well, you have your ideas about how the site should be run, and we have ours. Here's how it works here: Russ has his rules, and then he picks people who will act as his eyes and ears when he can't be around. We each, individually, try to make the choices we think he would make.

You also need to know that we do, often, "meet" in the mod's forum to discuss various threads. If we're not sure, we ask for opinions. If we are pretty sure, we go ahead and close the thread. We might talk about it afterwards, but sometimes we don't.

Russ has done his best to make it clear that the operations of the forum here are not done democracy-style. It's his site, and we as mods and administrators do our best to enforce the letter (and more importantly) the spirit of the rules he has set up.

As to how I became an administrator ... Russ and I are friends, when I passed my old forums over to him he and I really saw eye-to-eye on how they should be run, and so he kept the same rules that I had because they seemed to work very well. I participate as an administrator because I continue to enjoy hanging out with the folks here and I enjoy helping to keep it a nice place for folks to discuss D&D and D20 stuff.

[blackshirt5]

So, you meet and discuss various threads in the mods board. Let me ask though, did you discuss RakeRon's thread, or did you just make a unilateral decision based on what you guessed the thread was gonna turn into(which again I say is a bad policy, it's punishing people for what you believe they might do or say. No offense, but that sounds pretty facist to me)? I think that closing a thread before people say things you think they'll say(even if they do eventually say it) will only cause more bad blood and nasty feelings. You have to let people say what they're gonna say and take the consequences, not punish them before they say what you think they might say.

[Umbran]

Originally posted by blackshirt5
So, why were you chosen to be an administrator?

'Cause he knows what the heck he's doin'. He's been doin' it for quite some time now, y'know.

Personally, I'd like to see a bit more of a committee decision on locking threads, since apparently anything could be connected to politics using the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" style of reasoning that you seemed to use to close the aforementioned thread.

Well, the basic precepts under which this place operates have worked, and worked well, for some years now, and have fairly obviously served to keep the boards a wonderful, civil place. "Teaching your grandmother (or Eric's Grandma, in this case) to suck eggs" is a pretty nasty sounding colloquialism, but a bit fitting.

The mods and admins of EN World have proven many times over that they know what they are doing. As a matter of practicality, this place cannot be a democracy. That means, by extension, that occasionally you may have what you feel is a promising thread closed. Such is the price of all the rest of the goodies we have here, and it's worth paying.

[EricNoah]

Closing a thread isn't a punishment. It's a way to stop a conversation that's not appropriate for EN World. I felt the entire topic was just not appropriate, so I closed the thread. I really don't have much more to say about it.

[tburdett]

Moderation is a necessary evil.

It is necessary because many people take advantage of the fact that there is relative anonymity when posting here. They post things that they would not otherwise say because there is no fear of reprisal.

It is evil because we place such a high value on the right to speak freely. That right doesn't apply here, but it does not lessen the evil of censorship.

[blackshirt5]

oops.

[jdavis]

Thread on a local High School's policy on Terrorist attacks, gee that doesn't sound like it would blow up in to a heated political arguement...... Personally I'd of closed it too, now if it was a local High School's policy on roleplaying games you might have something to be upset about. Sounds like you are upset because it was one of your friends threads and not because it was or was not appropriate. Besides I rather have some OT threads closed early than have the board degenerate into namecalling and silliness, that's what every other messageboard on the internet is for.

[Angcuru]

AHEM. While I am perhaps somewhat reluctant to come to the defense of someone so malicious as Blackshirt , this is a topic well worth discussing. While EricNoah closes down many threads that need to be closed, he closes many more than any of the other mods. Perhaps he is a bit more vigilant, but perhaps he is; as Blackshirt stated: a bit lockhappy.

Originally posted by EricNoah
It's the latter.

With all due respect, starting off your argument with what is in effect an insult in reply to a question posted to people other than yourself is not a good way to begin your or argument or defense, if you wish to put it that way.

If you read the little announcement at the top of each forum, you can see that there are many reasons why a thread might get closed. Piratecat and I and basically all the mods have had an especially active week or so due to the various BoEF threads, and the somewhat less-than-ideal arguments/fights going on in those.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps he did look, decided that perhaps those reasons did not agree to him, and proceeded to inquire as to why the rules are the way they are? A word to the wise: Sarcasm does nothing but make the speaker's opinion that much less appealing.

Yes, you mods have had your hands full with all the banter about the BoEF currently in development, but I fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand, Eric.

As far as the specificl thread mentioned -- it was clearly (to me, and I'm the one who makes the call, right?) a highly political thread that had nowhere to go but downhill from there. Sometimes I'm just guessing where a thread will be heading; most of the time, though, I pretty much *know* because of dealing with similar things in the past here on the boards.

Clarity is relative to the perciever. And while you make SOME of the calls, you do not make them all, remember that. The thread was nowhere near political, from my viewpoint, and I should know, I spend a great deal of my time discussing politics. Mentioning once in a broad conversation how an offical on the School Board had seemed to overstep his boundaries is SLIGHTLY political, yet not enough to justify the locking of a thread. If the speaker had outright mentioned (without provocation) that said official was abusing his power and should perhaps be removed is a bit more political, and may give cause to be wary of the thread, but still not enough to justify the locking.

So you admit that you were just guessing, otherwise you would not have mentioned this tendency of yours. So you are able to *KNOW* how a conversation will turn simply because past conversations had done so a few times in the past? A hunch is not a good enough reason to close a thread: factual evidence such as text authored by a participant in the conversation for this particular debate showing that the speaker is actively seeking to create trouble or turn the converstaion towards OBVIOUS politics; is.

And there is one small thing that I'd like to add. Eric, your Avatar IS a picture of a guy with a cocky smirk on his face, after all. It tends to lend your writing on the boards a bit of a "high and mighty" attitude that really puts people off. Something silly and humorous such as a cat with an eye patch and a hook-hand gives writing a light-hearted feel, making the reader a bit more accepting to what they read. But then again, this is just my perception.

[HellHound]

I think the priority has to be set here...

There SHOULDN'T be a "committee", nor should anyone feel they have the right to post anything on the forums.

The reality is that these forums are paid for out of someone's pocket. As long as that person pays for us to be able to talk on them, that person, and NO ONE ELSE, has the right to tell us what to do on the forums.

[hong]

*twitch*

[Angcuru]

But is Eric dishing out this cash? Cause if he isn't I see no reason to put up with someone whom I view to be obnoxious and drunk with the illusion of power, considering your statement.

BTW - No intent of insult or mockery, this is simple the way I view EricNoah.

[jgbrowning]

Originally posted by hong
*twitch*

*double twitch*

guys, we all understand you're questioning eric's decision.
we all understand you think he may have been unfair.

But do you understand that, metaphorically speaking, you've just walked into his house and told him how to behave? regardless of your point-of-view (or relative arguementative theories), that's bad taste.

Publicly "calling-out" a moderator is always a bad idea. That's why there's private messages or e-mail.


joe b.

[Eridanis]

Originally posted by Angcuru
AHEM.While EricNoah closes down many threads that need to be closed, he closes many more than any of the other mods.

Hmm. Links to closed threads, please? From my perspective, I rarely see more than one locked thread a week. Perhaps I'm just looking in the wrong places?

So you are able to *KNOW* how a conversation will turn simply because past conversations had done so a few times in the past?

Intuition, experience, and wisdom are wonderful tools, especially in tandem.

And there is one small thing that I'd like to add. Eric, your Avatar IS a picture of a guy with a cocky smirk on his face, after all. It tends to lend your writing on the boards a bit of a "high and mighty" attitude that really puts people off.

Are we reading the same boards? Of all the people I read here, Eric is the least cocky of them all, it seems to me.

I've been visiting here since the beginning, and not only has Eric always been fair and open in his running of the site, but has earned my respect and trust. Even if he were to go "cocky" on us, I would be willing to give him some leeway. Until we drive up to Madison and slap the happy coat on him.

[jgbrowning]

Originally posted by Angcuru
But is Eric dishing out this cash? Cause if he isn't I see no reason to put up with someone whom I view to be obnoxious and drunk with the illusion of power, considering your statement.

BTW - No intent of insult or mockery, this is simple the way I view EricNoah.

*triple twitch*

joe b.