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Let me start by saying that I love EnWorld. In fact, I recently bought a supporter account because I felt bad for using the boards so much and not helping to keep running them.
However, like all familes, we can disagree. I was wondering, though, if anyone else felt the same way. I just finished reading the news for the day. There was a definite slant in the reporting that portrayed the new D20 license change in a poor light. When I read about the change yesterday, I was very much against WOTC's change, until I had time to think about it, and realize that I did not find the changes as bad as some others seemed to think they would be.
And I see no where in the news that the license change has been planned for the last year! And this has been confirmed by Anthony Valterra (he was trying to rush a certain book ahead of the change!)
However, both news stories about the change are heavily biased against WOTC. Instead of reporting on the license change and letting us make the decision, we get a very negative opinion on the impact. I have noticed such things in the news before, but it never really bothered me before, but I decided to call attention to it now.
Sometimes it feels like there is a definite bias here at EnWorld. Some ideas are just not as "acceptable" as others, even when stated within the bounds of Eric's grandma.
I have seen very rational arguments against certain books, be flamed to the ground, with the rational people rather than the flamers blamed.
Maybe it is just that the idea of being unbiased or having rational debates is passe these days.
I don't think bias is a good word. News and informations at ENWorld are options, it is a view, and the writers are not held to a standard, other than good taste, they are not reporters, just gamers with an interest.
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All I need is minions and I would rule the world.
Let me start by saying that I love EnWorld. In fact, I recently bought a supporter account because I felt bad for using the boards so much and not helping to keep running them.
However, like all familes, we can disagree. I was wondering, though, if anyone else felt the same way. I just finished reading the news for the day. There was a definite slant in the reporting that portrayed the new D20 license change in a poor light. When I read about the change yesterday, I was very much against WOTC's change, until I had time to think about it, and realize that I did not find the changes as bad as some others seemed to think they would be.
And I see no where in the news that the license change has been planned for the last year! And this has been confirmed by Anthony Valterra (he was trying to rush a certain book ahead of the change!)
However, both news stories about the change are heavily biased against WOTC. Instead of reporting on the license change and letting us make the decision, we get a very negative opinion on the impact. I have noticed such things in the news before, but it never really bothered me before, but I decided to call attention to it now.
Sometimes it feels like there is a definite bias here at EnWorld. Some ideas are just not as "acceptable" as others, even when stated within the bounds of Eric's grandma.
I have seen very rational arguments against certain books, be flamed to the ground, with the rational people rather than the flamers blamed.
Maybe it is just that the idea of being unbiased or having rational debates is passe these days.
Dave
Maybe it is a passe idea. Every news station is sensational. Even the major players show obvious politcal leanings, which is QUITE contrary to what I was instructed as being ethical in College Journalism courses just 4 years ago. People change. Some things never change however; sex, scandal and indignant rage sells papers and gets more attention than rationalism sometimes. I guess that's just life. As far as people having a leaning, I can see where EN World would feel a certain way about the new d20STL.
Having said that, I am also happy to say that Russ is not doing this for profit anymore so if he wants to put his spin on his site on his news page, then more power to him. Like you said, it's sort of a family. Sure, we'll bicker and disagree, but we're still together and we are still united by a common bond. Gaming that is, not blood.
__________________ I used to collect my thoughts, but I ran out of room.
i find the news here much like the reviews. but i take what i want and leave the rest.
__________________ Story Hour
OMG! The SKY IS FALLING! --JoeGKushner
Myself, I plan to masturbate less -- der_kluge
I know that I've never really liked d20. I think it was designed by a bunch of hacks --- Monte Cook
I am sickened beyond belief. The half-orc wizard is obviously the best possible PC, and I only had to read 10 pages of the book to figure it out. D&D is dead to me! -- Mike Mearls
FWIW, I'm on the design team and I pretty much find WoW as fun and interesting as banging my head against a brick wall. -- Mike Mearls
you happen to say that 4E reminds you of the reasons you decided against a career as a special-Ed teacher--noted rpg author Darrin Drader
There's bias everywhere man...EN World is no different
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I just finished reading the news for the day. There was a definite slant in the reporting that portrayed the new D20 license change in a poor light. When I read about the change yesterday, I was very much against WOTC's change, until I had time to think about it, and realize that I did not find the changes as bad as some others seemed to think they would be.
Then you have achieved your stated goal: You considered the given information and drew your won conclusion.
The idea that there is ever an unbiased statement in media is crazy, forget the statement itself, the fact that certain staements are made or not made shows the bias of the reporter or the editorial staff.
Bias is not a bad thing, I myself am biased against the views of white supremacists, pedophiles and wife beaters, and were i to do a report on any of their views, my bias would likely cast its shadow over the piece.
In this case, I drew my conclusion after reading the opinions of people whose opinions I respect who have more insight into the situation that I do (Ryan Dancey for the most part, but others as well).
You've done the same thing (it would seem that you trust Anthony Valterra's commentary as much as I do), and it has affected your opinion on the news.
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However, both news stories about the change are heavily biased against WOTC. Instead of reporting on the license change and letting us make the decision, we get a very negative opinion on the impact.
Yet somehow, you managed to make a decision contrary to the bias you saw. Mission accomplished.
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Sometimes it feels like there is a definite bias here at EnWorld. Some ideas are just not as "acceptable" as others, even when stated within the bounds of Eric's grandma.
That communities develop standards cannot be news to you. The prevailing culture here at En World is biased toward the third-party D20 Publishers. Ever has it been and ever shall it be. The 3rd party folks are present, active and helpful. When the core of the license that allows them to prosper is changed to protect a monolithic corporation, then yes, you can expect bias to lean in support of the people we know.
This is a community. Communities rally around their members. It's the way of the world (or it should be).
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I have seen very rational arguments against certain books, be flamed to the ground, with the rational people rather than the flamers blamed.
Me too. it happens all the time. I've seen people expressing unpopular opinions get slammed more than once (hi Snoweel ).
Hell, I've been the slamee more than once (Hi Piratecate )
But in the final analysis, to pretend (or expect) that community standards should not reflect the community that creates them is a hard statement to get behind.
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Maybe it is just that the idea of being unbiased or having rational debates is passe these days.
You'll win no points by placing yourself as the one free thinker in Stepford man Lots of people here hold opinions contrary to the majority. They are allowed to express them at will (so long as Eric's Grandma doesn't bring the hammer down...fascist ol' lady )
But nobody has to agree with them. If you have a point, try and make it. People can be swayed. But to imply that the starting point for your argument should be moved somewhere other than where the prevailing sentiment places it is not going to win you any converts.
__________________
"...show me a game where the roleplaying involves deep emotional experiences and making tough decisions in-character and experiencing vicarious unpleasantness and, generally, all the stuff that people like Ron Edwards insist is the very heart of roleplaying without which the activity has no meaning and is so much wasted time, and I'll show you me leaving the room..."
I guess one man's bias is another's opinion. I think it's odd that anyone can look at the main page and claim that EN World is biased against WotC - EN World is, 90%, a WotC fan site and I spend a lot of time promoting WotC stuff!
I wrote the news item last night, and I've been out of town since. I've only become aware that AV has said anything just now (from your post above). I'll look for that later (unless someone wants to point me at it).
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Last edited by Morrus; 9th September 2003 at 08:17 PM..
I agree with you on most counts, Diaglo, except that nasty bent towards older editions.
Of course, I love to argue/ debate, so my natural proclivities tend to be used more than often here at EnWorld where I can hang out with people who share more in common with me than "normals."
However, I intend to play a wait an see game with WOTC. I have participated in more than my fair share of "sky (WOTC) is falling arguments" and I am usually wrong about the demise of the hobby anyway.
However, a little less bias in the new could be a good thing, imo.
Is En World Biased? Well depends...I mean more biased than say some of the people out in the real world? Probably not. More biased than me? Very doubtful! (No I'm not THAT biased but I am hardly unbiased either. )
Hell, I've [/i]been[i] the slamee more than once (Hi Piratecate )
Hey, now! Is that a subtle dig at PC's masculinity?
I'd say there is certainly bias at enworld. As TB says, there's a bias towards third party publishers, I think. There's also a bias in favor of DMs over players that's been commented on many times. Then again, there's bias in every community -- online or otherwise -- to which I belong. It doesn't affect my own personal biases any, though.
Hey, now! Is that a subtle dig at PC's masculinity?
Heh, no. I think measured by any yardstick that's a dig at mine
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...There's also a bias in favor of DMs over players that's been commented on many times....
May it never change!
__________________
"...show me a game where the roleplaying involves deep emotional experiences and making tough decisions in-character and experiencing vicarious unpleasantness and, generally, all the stuff that people like Ron Edwards insist is the very heart of roleplaying without which the activity has no meaning and is so much wasted time, and I'll show you me leaving the room..."
---Stephenls; RPG.net Moderator---
Last edited by Teflon Billy; 9th September 2003 at 08:42 PM..
I do agree with you, but I thought this may be a question that the people of EnWorld would enjoy discussing/ thinking about, so I decided to throw something into the ring.
Morrus,
here is the quote from AV:
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Folks,
So, yes, it is me. I'm trying to standardize my name to ACValterra. I used Zulkir when I was with WotC. I use ACValterra on the boards on our site (www.valarproject.com).
Okay - a few things that I can now say. First as a former employee of WotC I am constrained in some of the things I can reveal for legal reasons. But as soon as WotC says it publically I am obviously freed up. WotC has now confessed that these changes have been in the works for a year. A YEAR FOLKS!!!!! BoeF was announced last MARCH!!! Do the math!
Everyone who has been saying Anthony Valterra ruined it for all of us can now please eat their words. They were assuming this order:
1) Anthony (pool pee-er) Valterra announces BoeF because he is a Machivellian money grubber.
2) WotC in a panic changes the license to try and stop the product.
Thus BoeF is responsible for the change.
It is now obvious that this is the order:
1) WotC (internally) decides that the license must be changed about fall of last year.
2) Anthony opposes the change for 6 months and then realizing the battle is lost leaves WotC to do the product that **he really believes in** and has wanted to do since he cludged a courtesan class in his college D&D game.
3) In his attempt to move fast he writes his own press release (a move he has desperately regreted ever since)
4) He then whips his poor creatives in an attempt to beat the license change.
5) Even though badly abused they turn out absolutely brilliant work.
Oh, and by the way all those who *know* what the BoeF is going to be like you might check out some of the reviews of the preview. Maybe its not what you think it is. Don't judge it by the idiot press release. I fired that moron.
Actually, I don't see any particular bias in my news item. I just re-read it, and apart from a minor dig at WotC for responding with a boilerplate statement, both news items just say "X said this, and B said this" in the order in which they said it. I've added the latest quote, from AV, which was written by him after I wrote the news item.
EN World's messageboard definitely has a pro-d20 and pro third-party slant, though I'm not sure if that means anti-WotC necessarily.
Also, the EN World's messageboards and the EN World news site are somewhat different entities, particularly in this regard.
As far as EN World bias against WotC at EN World and by Morrus in particular, I think it might be worth pointing out that when the news of 3.5 leaked out Morrus and others were quick to defend WotC on the messageboards and later on the News site. In the past news items have been posted at the news site to clarify WotC's position on things during various online WotC-bashing sessions (when WotC laid off several people, Morrus posted a lengthy quote from Monte Cook which tried to dispell numerous outrigh myths about how evil WotC was)
I'm with BelenUmeria in that I disagree with ENWorld's attitude towards the license changes. That said, I agree that basically all modern publications are biased; what is upsetting is when a publication (and I'm thinking especially of North American daily newspapers and TV newscasts) pretend at being unbiased. Now that is tiresome.
__________________ A Fusangite
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“one must depart from the province of Lean-tong, north of Peking and that after travelling 12,000 li, the traveller would reach Japan, and thence to the north, after a journey of 7000 li, arrive at the country of Wen-Schin (the painted people). Five thousand li from this country towards the east is Tahan, which is 20,000 li from Fusang.”
-- A 6th century account of Fusang, the country across the Pacific from China.
I do agree with you, but I thought this may be a question that the people of EnWorld would enjoy discussing/ thinking about...
Ahh, ok. I just thought that your comment....
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...Maybe it is just that the idea of being unbiased or having rational debates is passe these days...
..Sounded not so much like you "throwing a topic into the ring" as being passive/agreesive sarcasm aimed at placing your point of view above that of the rank and file of EN World.
Given that your post was a call for less bias; this seemed a mite hypocritical.
__________________
"...show me a game where the roleplaying involves deep emotional experiences and making tough decisions in-character and experiencing vicarious unpleasantness and, generally, all the stuff that people like Ron Edwards insist is the very heart of roleplaying without which the activity has no meaning and is so much wasted time, and I'll show you me leaving the room..."
---Stephenls; RPG.net Moderator---
Last edited by Teflon Billy; 9th September 2003 at 09:12 PM..
Reason: tidied up some spelling/punctuation
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