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Over in the ENnies V and beyond thread, maddman75 posted about how he would like to see a new forum for discussing "Other Games" and Crothian suggested starting a new thread so folks could discuss it.
Thus, here I am starting a new thread, hopefully to gather enough support that Morrus might add such a forum.
Personally, I think that this is a good idea, especially since there ARE a lot of other games out there that are not d20 games, and there are many people on these forums who play them in addition to d20 games.
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but isn't that what "general RPG discussion" is about?
I mean we have a forum for d20 and OGL games, a few for D&D rules, and this one.. why is there a need for an "other games" section that would be redundant with the General RPG discussion?
Nisarg - Like Crothian said, to actually talk about and discuss other systems specifically, and hopefully not have to worry too much about somebody coming along to bash anything that happens to not be d20. Whether we like it or not, it usually happens to one degree or another in the General forum.
By having such discussions confined to a single forum, it will prevent (or at least lessen) the amount of bashers popping in to do a thread crap. Something which, unfortunately, happens all too often here in the General forum.
The topics would be much different than you recent White Wolf rant, or the posts you made on the HARP threads (which eventually led to one of them getting locked).
The bottom line a new forum is formed when it is needed. Until there is a lot of non d20 discussion going on here we won't get a forum for no matter how many people claim they want it. The only real way to prove one wants it is to show that we need one.
By having such discussions confined to a single forum, it will prevent (or at least lessen) the amount of bashers popping in to do a thread crap. Something which, unfortunately, happens all too often here in the General forum.
RPG.net is one big "other systems" forum, and it hasn't stopped the threadcrapping (which is actually far worse there).
I think General is the prefect place for discussion of any system. I can see the point of segregating reviews, but not segregating discussion.
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... A player cannot learn of a game's ending without experiencing it, because a game is not a linear object.
—Mike Mearls
Given the move for the ENnies to include other games I wouldn't mind seeing a forum specifically for that either. It might make people feel more comfortable about comnig here to discuss non-d20 stuff, and provide a better informed voting base for non-d20 games come next year.
Also, while RPG.net is a great resource, I do appreciate the slightly more active moderation here at ENWorld that keeps the forums more family friendly and prevents threads from devolving into too much flamage.
The bottom line a new forum is formed when it is needed. Until there is a lot of non d20 discussion going on here we won't get a forum for no matter how many people claim they want it. The only real way to prove one wants it is to show that we need one.
Other boards also talk about d20, including most of the games in the "d20 Modern, d20 System & OGL Games". Are they redundant, or is this one? Heck, there's a D&D rules forum here which is redundant compared to the one on the WotC site, right?
2WS-Steve is right in that if ENWorld is going to give out awards to non-d20 products, shouldn't there be a little non-d20 conversation here? If people come here and see nothing but d20 talk, then all people will talk about here is d20, right? I mean, it's right in the name of the site. If you're asking people to start threads on non-d20 systems in the General forum, then maybe there should be an announcement saying that such threads are welcome.
I agree, we should have a safer place where we can talk about other game systems without people jumping in to bash something. Being in a separate forum helps. I agree that there are many people here on ENWorld that play non-d20 games along with d20 games, and hopefully this thread can garner enough support to justify a new forum.
RPG.net is one big "other systems" forum, and it hasn't stopped the threadcrapping (which is actually far worse there).
Actually, rpg.net is not a big "other systems" forum, it is a big "all systems" forum. There is a slight difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz
I think General is the prefect place for discussion of any system. I can see the point of segregating reviews, but not segregating discussion.
So, then are you advocating the removal of the D&D and the D20 forums and having them all combined into General?
If not, then guess what? You already ARE segregating discussions based upon system (D&D versus d20 {Modern, OGL, Future, etc.}).
I also had not thought of the point that 2WS-Steve made, but it is a VERY good one. Since the ENnies are expanding to have "other games" categories, it only makes sense to have a forum to support the discussion of that as well.
First the discussion and then the forum. Forums are not created here to get discussions going, they are only used when discussion grow to need a forum. I have no problem with non d20 threads, I happen to like them. But people need to create them and they need activity before any one of the mods will see a reason to create a forum. Just because the ENnies happen to include non d20 material is not enough.
I am for it. This forum is totally overcrowded, so adding a forum for other game systems (I mean not for various d20, but for Gurps, Harp, etc.) would be fine IMO.
I vote yes.
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I am for it. This forum is totally overcrowded, so adding a forum for other game systems (I mean not for various d20, but for Gurps, Harp, etc.) would be fine IMO.
I vote yes.
Another excellent point. The General forum IS crowded, which means that there are lots of posts here (a good thing, I might add), however, it also means that threads tend to disappear off the front page extremely quickly which makes them more difficult to find sometimes (a not so good thing).
And while I am sure that there are likely to be a good sized number of folks here who like other systems, in addition to d20. I am also sure that not everybody checks the forums every day. This means that these folks who might participate in thread about other systems might not because they don't see or find them because they slipped off the front page (which CAN happen very very quickly).
First the discussion and then the forum. Forums are not created here to get discussions going, they are only used when discussion grow to need a forum. I have no problem with non d20 threads, I happen to like them. But people need to create them and they need activity before any one of the mods will see a reason to create a forum. Just because the ENnies happen to include non d20 material is not enough.
How about adding a "Non D&D/D20 RPG" Icon for Threads then? (Or do we already have them?)
This would make it easier to identify these threads, and it will show if we really need an extra forum. (And maybe it also helps reducing the "not-d20-bashing" - only people who have the urgent need to bash a "not-d20"-game then will enter it then to bash it... )
This is more of a "Metaforum" discussion, so I'll bump it once, and move it there.
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The same discussion has come up in our staff forums, and the general consensus (not complete agreement, mind you) is that we'd love to have more "all game systems" traffic in the General RPG Forum. If there COMES a sufficient amount of traffic to warrant a forum of its own, then that's a different issue.
As to the issue of "bashing", that's an issue that is handled easily enough by reporting a basher to us mods; The 'report a post' feature does work now (though you need to post a link in your report to the thread; that does not function yet - until the server upgrade, I presume), but system-bashing does not have a place here. Mind you, someone saying, "why not use X system to accomplish a task instead?" or "there are some advantages to using system X over system Y" is not bashing; "WHY WOULD YOU PLAY THAT LOAD OF CRAP" is bashing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum Ridcully
How about adding a "Non D&D/D20 RPG" Icon for Threads then?
Now that's certainly logical; I need to check and see if it hasn't already been done! At the least, it would allow people interested in other topics to be able to sort by them. If the traffic gets to the point where sorting gets too long, then that's when we need to start talking forum changes.
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
I would prefer that non-d20/D&D reviews were labeled as such in the reviews section. My eyes won't burn out if I read a White Wolf review, but after having dumped $200 in World of Darkness products I can safely say that I'm more interested in d20 and I'd rather not have to weed through to find what I'm looking for.
What exactly distinguishes us from RPG.net if we open ENWorld up to other games? A stronger swear filter? Big f***ing deal.
I like ENWorld, but a move to a generic site means that we loose distinctiveness and we try to do what gamingreport.com, rpg.net, and the WotC forums are already doing a pretty good job of doing.
__________________ "I asked Dave to please send me his rules additions, for I thought a whole new system should be developed. A few weeks after his visit I received 18 or so handwritten pages of rules and notes pertaining to his campaign, and I immediately began work on a brand new manuscript. "Greyhawk" campaign started —the first D&D campaign! About three weeks later, I had some 100 typewritten pages, and we began serious play-testing in Lake Geneva, while copies were sent to the Twin Cities and to several other groups for comment. DUNGEONS & DRAGONS had been born."
— EGG, Dragon #7
I took a look at the Icon topic list, and came to the conclusion that I don't pay Michael Morris NEARLY enough attention. There is a HUGE list of icons there for topics that we don't take enough advantage of. However, no "non-d20" style icon - I suppose it never came up before.
I'll make the suggestion, assuming Russ isn't looking at this already.
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
I would prefer that non-d20/D&D reviews were labeled as such in the reviews section. My eyes won't burn out if I read a White Wolf review, but after having dumped $200 in World of Darkness products I can safely say that I'm more interested in d20 and I'd rather not have to weed through to find what I'm looking for.
What exactly distinguishes us from RPG.net if we open ENWorld up to other games? A stronger swear filter? Big f***ing deal.
I like ENWorld, but a move to a generic site means that we loose distinctiveness and we try to do what gamingreport.com, rpg.net, and the WotC forums are already doing a pretty good job of doing.
If you're asking people to start threads on non-d20 systems in the General forum, then maybe there should be an announcement saying that such threads are welcome.
At the least, it would allow people interested in other topics to be able to sort by them. If the traffic gets to the point where sorting gets too long, then that's when we need to start talking forum changes.
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