"Invisible Fences" for dogs...

[Pbartender]

So, we've got a wonderful dog. She's thoroughly a mutt (some sort of Collie mix, with at least Shepherd, Retreiver and Spaniel mixed in with who knows what else). She's about knee-high and maybe about 45 pounds or so. She named "Sweetheart" and lives up to the name.

Anyway, the house we currently rent has a fence in the back yard... A wooden fence that is old, decrepit and rotten to the point that it no longer serves to keep Sweeite in the backyard. It's now more of a safety hazard than not, and it must come down this summer.

And boy does she like to run. Without the fence, she'd run all over the neighborhood chasing squirrels and birds, without a thought for traffic. At that point, chasing after her is a game of hide and seek tag -- she runs just far enough ahead so you can't catch but not so far that she's out of sight. It's a worrisome thing for us when she does this.

For the past few months, she's been relegated to being tied up to a long rope in the back yard, when she wants to go outside. She doesn't really like it, and neither do we. It'll be a few years before we can buy our own house and put up a fence, so we've been considering interim alternatives.

I've started doing some research into "invisible fences", though my wife and are having mixed feelings about it. We'd appreciate any additional thoughts and experiences on the subject from you guys.

[Merkuri]

I've never used one, and have known people who have had good experiences with them, but my parents never got one for our dog because we were worried he would get excited, start running, and blast through the invisible fense in his excitement, then be stuck outside and unable to come back. Of course, this was the same 30 lb. dog who jumped off of our four-foot wall to land smack in the middle of an asphalt road because he saw somebody walking another dog across the street. If your dog likes to chase things and has a habit of running into walls or doing other painful things in her excitement then you should probably think about whether the pain from the invisible fense will stop her.

Personally, I'd always prefer physical restraints for a dog (fence, or leash usually).

[Dannyalcatraz]

From what I understand, they work quite well...for some dogs. I don't trust them, though.

We currently have a situation similar to yours in our house. We recently had to euthanize our oldest dog (a 15 1/2 year old Border Collie) and aquired a new Border Collie puppy. Our other dog (an 8 year old Border Collie) was not pleased with either development, but she's adapting.

While our fence is in good shape, the puppy is small enough to get through the metal sections or under our motorized car gate.

Solution part #1: We have a couple of dog tether spikes we used when taking our dogs out for a day in the great wide open spaces (so they could romp in the wildflowers). They consist of a 18" long metal spike, the top of which has a ring to which is attached a 15' long tether of woven steel coated by plastic- not unlike some of those bycicle security cords.

Properly placed, the dog could run around and get to shelter and water.

However, it was a tad short for Miss Puppy's happiness. She couldn't quite get enough slack to keep up with chasing our other dog.

Solution part #2: I took the cord from one dog tether and attached it to the other tether via a carabiner- now the pup has a 60' diameter circle of access to the yard.

[Goddess FallenAngel]

I have to echo, they work well for some dogs, but not others.

I've never personally had one, but a friend of mine did - their dog would stand in the back of the yard, by the house, gather himself, then launch himself across the yard at top speed. He'd yip in pain as he went past the fence, and then would be off. He'd do it deliberately to get up enough speed that he couldn’t stop himself when it started to hurt. Sometimes we'd be quick enough to notice that he was working himself up to it and stop him, sometimes not.

So, it depends on your dog. If pain deters her, then it will probably work. If not, well…

I’m not sure exactly how the fences work, but you might want to look into what will happen if there is an unexpected power outage – will the fence still work?

[Pbartender]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

They consist of a 18" long metal spike, the top of which has a ring to which is attached a 15' long tether of woven steel coated by plastic- not unlike some of those bycicle security cords.

Properly placed, the dog could run around and get to shelter and water.

However, it was a tad short for Miss Puppy's happiness. She couldn't quite get enough slack to keep up with chasing our other dog.

This pretty much describes our current situation.

I'm certain a shock, painful or not, will deter her... She's an exceptionally submissive dog, behavior which stems from her being abandoned prior to us adopting her from an animal shelter. It's been a year or two of hard confidence training to turn her back into a fairly normal, happy dog. It's more of a worry that any sort of shock deterrent might erode some of that confidence.

Also, she's the sort run and chase and run fast when she's outside. I don't think she'd purposefully run through an invisible fence, might she might do it by accident. On the other hand, she's an very smart and very trainable dog. I don't think it would take her long to understand what the fence and the beeping collar mean. Of course, it'll be hard to tell unless we actually try it.

As for power outages... It depends on the system. Some have backup batteries, others simply shut down.

[Merkuri]

Originally Posted by Goddess FallenAngel

I’m not sure exactly how the fences work, but you might want to look into what will happen if there is an unexpected power outage – will the fence still work?

Part of the concept of such fences is that it trains your dog not to go past a certain point. Theoretically once your dog learns that he will get shocked if he passes that line he won't go near it, even if there's nothing visibly there. At this time, you can even remove the fence and the dog will still respect that boundary. That's the theory, at least. I imagine some dogs will learn faster than others, and some may not learn at all, especially if they're the kind of dogs that will always keep testing the boundaries.

[HeavenShallBurn]

I rented a house that already had one installed for about a year during the mid nineties. My dog wasn't even deterred by it, mind you this boxer was a mean little bastage. But still he would walk right through it, just whimper a bit as it shocked him. Had to put him on a staked chain in the end.

[Vraille Darkfang]

I only know 2 people who have used these things. And neither ended well.

1. The Pomerainian (From my experiences one of the most Viscious of Dog Breeds. Ineffective in their visciousness, but viscious none the less).

My friend moved in a new subdivision (one where they were still busy clearing other lots to put up more houses). When they moved in, the lot already had the Inviso Fence. So they'd jsut let the Pomer go wild. After about a dozen shocks the fence really worked well.

No problems with the Dog running AWAY from the Yard, however there was some issues about other creatures wandering INTO the Yard.

One morning he let the Psycho Fluffball out to do its business in the yard. It torn straight out for the far corner of the lot, Barking & Growling its head off. My friend looked out, expecting to see a rabbit or squirel. He saw 6 Small Critters in the Yard. 5 Little Ones & 1 the Size of the Dog. They all had very unique Black & White Markings. Seems Momma Skunk was taking all the Baby Skunks on a tour of the neighborhood. And his little Pomerainian was Charging them down full tilt.

He had just enough time to Shout "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!," Before Woof! Woof! YELP! YELP! YELP! Momma Skunk stood her ground while the babies ran off. When the dog was about 3' away. POW! Right in the Face. Full Load of Skunk Juice to the Snout & Eyes. The Pomer was now distressed. It began to back up, shaking its head, trying to get away from the Stench. It backed right into the other Border of the Fence. That Shock did it.

Little Guy took off like a Rocket in a random Direction. Which just so happened to be the Nieghbor's House. It flew right through the Fence Barrier, never pausing for the Shock.

Oh, did I mention this was one of those Subdivisons where EVERY house looks identical? So, poor, Blind Pomer ran up the steps to the nearest deck & right through the Screen Door. Which just so happened to be the Retired Couple Next Door.

You know what the Negative Modifier to your Diplomacy Check is after having to say "Umm, Excuse me, that's my Skunk Drenched Pomerainian hiding under your bed."?

They then put up a Real Fence, more to keep other wildlife out, than keep the dog in.


2. The Golden Retriever.

Got the Fence. Dog goes to fence. Gets Zapped. Begins to bark & growl & whatever hit him & slowly creeps forward. Gets Zapped. Begins to bark & growl & whatever hit him & slowly creeps forward. Gets Zapped. Begins to bark & growl & whatever hit him & slowly creeps forward. Gets Zapped. Begins to bark & growl & whatever hit him & slowly creeps forward. Gets Zapped. Begins to bark & growl & whatever hit him & slowly creeps forward. Gets Zapped.

Repeat this for 5 HOURS (when they brought the dog in). Repeat this process daily for 3 weeks. Really. Once the dog went out, it'd run right to the Fence, get Zapped & begin to bark at whatever Zapped him Until he got Zapped Again. Most of his Neighbors were dog people, so they understood, they were training the Retriever. But, after a Marathon 8 HOUR session 1 Saturday, they told him "Umm, either Muzzle that Dog or we will".

In a not so rare moment of brilliant stupidity, my friend bought the Dog one of those Shock Collars that Zaps them when they Bark. Beacuse if the Dog couldn't figure out how not to get Zapped by a Stationary Line, One that Follows him around should now be no Problem.

I think the dog darn near electrocuted himself. It would run up to the Fence, get zapped, begn to bark, get zapped AGAIN, turn in a circle trying to figure out what zapped him, barking the entire time, kinda. Bark. ZAP! YELP! Bark. ZAP! YELP! He'd turn in circles looking for his invisible attacker until he got close to the Fence & Got Zapped. Then he'd begin to turn in Circles the Other way until he wandered into the Fence & Got Zapped.

After 30 Straight Minutes, my Friend brought the Dog inside. It was still ticked off at whoever has Zapping him.

The Dog was too Stupid & Stubborn for the Fence to Work. They had to go with the Chain on a Stick.

I'm guessing the effectiviness is more based on the Dog than the Fence. A well Trained Dog will probablly work just fine. An Unruly or Wild one might just blast right through it.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Vraille just brought up the next point I was going to make.

Your dog might learn to respect the fence, but nobody else will. Skunks aside, there are also strays and neigborhood kids to consider.

[Blood Jester]

The problem of a properly motivated dog running fast enough to blow through the fence before it reacts to the shock, and then being stuck outside if actually very common, and one of the two top reasons I would advise strongly against the idea.

[RigaMortus2]

We have an invisible fence and I can tell you, it works wonderfully. No longer do my wife and I need to keep an eye out on the kids playing in our front yard. They haven't played in the street for months now. I highly recommend one!

[Kahuna Burger]

I would only recomend an invisible fence as a backup to a real fence or on an unfenced side of the house where you don't plan on the dog going out but it could slip through the door. It could be a valuable safety measure in either of those situations, but as your only fence it seems insufficient.

[Pbartender]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

Your dog might learn to respect the fence, but nobody else will. Skunks aside, there are also strays and neigborhood kids to consider.

This is not a consideration at this point. There is nothing that an electric fence won't keep out that our current fence also won't keep out.

We're still thinking it over, but our one consolation is that the systems are (relatively) inexpensive enough that we aren't out a fortune, if we want to try it out.

[Reveille]

I read some reviews on 'em a while back and remember that quite a few people didn't like the way it messed with their dog, that it isn't a very humane solution.

[frankthedm]

Originally Posted by Vraille Darkfang

Seems Momma Skunk was taking all the Baby Skunks on a tour of the neighborhood. And his little Pomerainian was Charging them down full tilt...

Woof! Woof! YELP! YELP! YELP!

Readied Actions beat charges.