I just accidentlied all over the new HIVE! lol

[Relique du Madde]

I love how even after the No more 5e thread moratorium was placed people started doing 6e threads..

[CleverNickName]

Originally Posted by Relique du Madde

I love how even after the No more 5e thread moratorium was placed people started doing 6e threads..

I know, right? I haven't been online for nearly three weeks, and when I come back, it's the same old stuff. Apparently I didn't miss much.

It's not that it is impossible to have a good conversation about upcoming editions of the game we all love. But to some people, "let's talk about 5E" sounds too much like "I hate 4E", and them's fightin' words around here.

[Relique du Madde]

I agree, but for me it's just wierd that people are thinking about the next edition when this current edition is only like 1 year old. If 4e was open like 3.Xe was then I'd all be fore talking about improvements that could be made, however, since it's not, it all seems like a wasted effort when it's done outside of a homebrewed rules discussion.

[Aeson]

Are you people telling me there is a 4th edition of D&D out there? Why haven't heard about this? Is it any good?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If 4e was open like 3.Xe was then I'd all be fore talking about improvements that could be made, however, since it's not, it all seems like a wasted effort when it's done outside of a homebrewed rules discussion.

I am not sure how this is relevant, or I don't know what you mean. Just because 3.x had the OGL didn't mean that internet discussions had more or less merit than they do have now, or that they have more or less impact on the next edition of D&D.

Originally Posted by Aeson

Is it any good?

Yes, it rocks.

[Aeson]

Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully

I am not sure how this is relevant, or I don't know what you mean. Just because 3.x had the OGL didn't mean that internet discussions had more or less merit than they do have now, or that they have more or less impact on the next edition of D&D.


Yes, it rocks.

I don't know if I believe you.

I think what he's saying and I don't want to put words in his mouth but is that it's not open to suggestions from players. Paizo had an open test and listen to the players on their boards. I don't know if that's true. I'd like to think these "patches" they come out with are in response to input from fans. I'd like that as long as it's free.

[Aeson]

HR spoke to the property manager about what happened in the parking lot last week. He thought it was an isolated event and didn't warrant an increase in security.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Originally Posted by Aeson

I don't know if I believe you.

I think what he's saying and I don't want to put words in his mouth but is that it's not open to suggestions from players. Paizo had an open test and listen to the players on their boards. I don't know if that's true. I'd like to think these "patches" they come out with are in response to input from fans. I'd like that as long as it's free.

The only real difference is that WotC had a closed playtest and Paizo had an open one. Both have advantages and disadvantages. (Without wanting to say they are "equal". It's possible that overall one of them wins out, though I suppose it is more a question of what your priorities and goals overall are and there is no binary answer.)

But neither WotC nor Paizo started their design in a vacuum and waited for playtest input. They looked at the experience with the game - as they themselves and other players reported, and then started their design. And then they asked playtesters if it actually worked. Even now that D&D 4E is out we see the feedback loop still in action. Errata is created, monster design guidelines are revised, new classes and races take previous experiences into account.
The same will happen with Pathfinder. Or any other game with a constant release schedule... (err, and designers worth their money )

[Relique du Madde]

I'm not talking errata. I'm talking systematic and subsystem changes.

I'm saying is that the evolution of 4e to 5e is entirely dependent on WoTC since all the systematic changes we would like to see can never be propagated through multiple publishers, unlike OGL, since no content in GSL is open (All content is either third party IP or WoTC IP). There wont be any point bases systems like M&M or Anime d20, or by the numbers that are propogated in mass, instead if some subsystem does appear and people like it there will end up being 200 different versions of it which are all slightly altered (so no one gets sued for infringement).

If someone on these boards (or elsewhere) created an idea that WoTC does decide to use, the fan/publisher who suggested it MAY NEVER be credited if the subsystem is integrated into the games core since those sorts of protections don't seem to be provided in GSL. Instead, the WoTC author/designer who lifted the idea and placed it into a book would be credited.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't see that effect.

How much of the OGL/D20 STL stuff ever influenced 3E (or 4E)? I know that Spycrafts Vitality and Wound Points system were used in Star Wars and in Urban Arcana, but they can't be found in Star Wars Saga or 4E.

Other things had an effect. I suppose that Mike Mearls work on the Book of Iron Might and Iron Heroes was what made him interesting to WotC and also influenced 4E design -but it still went a very different way than BoIM or IH. A success like Mike Mearls career could also be easily repeated without the OGL and just the GSL.

[Galeros]

Right now the only systems I am interested in are DnD 3.5, Pathfinder, and BESM 1E.

[Dog Moon]

I think 4e has some ideas that could be interesting and will keep a little eye out for stuff I could modify and input into my 3e games, but other than that, our group has tired of 4e.

I'm also starting to get the itch to run a modern game, which 4e doesn't seem to be able to do well... especially without rules for any sort of firearm.

[CleverNickName]

I like the idea of a 5th Edition. I really like talking about how game systems can be improved or reworked...or completely overhauled for that matter.

When 4E was first announced, these boards were teeming with ideas and feedback: the creative juices were practically knee-deep around here. The game was going to be bigger, better, smoother, sexier, whatever, it was going to be awesome! Everyone had an idea, everyone was cheering everyone else on, the sky was the limit.

Then 4E was released and *SQUISH,* those discussions all got trampled into the mud as the 3tards and 4ons waged war after pointless war with each other.

Nowadays, if you start a thread to discuss the ways that 4E might be overhauled and/or improved, you will not draw the attention of other freestyle gamers. Instead, you will incur the wrath of the gaming elite, who feel you are somehow trying to undermine the success of the 4th Edition of the game. And they will vent their spleens all over your thread and everyone in it, until Piratecat finally shuts it down in disgust.

So I like the thought of 5th Edition, even if it is purely hypothetical. I miss the discussion, the feedback, the crazy ideas. I don't want to offend anyone, and I don't want to steal anyone's mirth. I just happen to think that 4E has a lot of room for improvement, and it sucks that we can't have a serious discussion about that here at ENWorld.

[Relique du Madde]

Maybe what they need is an experimental rules discussion subforum.. One whose main point is to have discussions about doing total 4e rules overhauling and tinkering beyond house rules or something. Oh, and place a note saying that the subforum is for serious "experimental" 4e rules discussion.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Originally Posted by CleverNickName

I like the idea of a 5th Edition. I really like talking about how game systems can be improved or reworked...or completely overhauled for that matter.

When 4E was first announced, these boards were teeming with ideas and feedback: the creative juices were practically knee-deep around here. The game was going to be bigger, better, smoother, sexier, whatever, it was going to be awesome! Everyone had an idea, everyone was cheering everyone else on, the sky was the limit.

Good times.

Then 4E was released and *SQUISH,* those discussions all got trampled into the mud as the 3tards and 4ons waged war after pointless war with each other.

Nowadays, if you start a thread to discuss the ways that 4E might be overhauled and/or improved, you will not draw the attention of other freestyle gamers. Instead, you will incur the wrath of the gaming elite, who feel you are somehow trying to undermine the success of the 4th Edition of the game. And they will vent their spleens all over your thread and everyone in it, until Piratecat finally shuts it down in disgust..

You are forgetting the guys that will say that will also denigrate the play style and your personality for having certain goals. Just look at the "No-Miss" discussion - suddenly people get labeled as "immature" just because they think of a different way to handle to-hit mechanics.

Maybe what they need is an experimental rules discussion subforum.. One whose main point is to have discussions about doing total 4e rules overhauling and tinkering beyond house rules or something. Oh, and place a note saying that the subforum is for serious "experimental" 4e rules discussion.

I actually like this idea, though some might say that's what the "House Rules" forum is in for. But it might have a different focus, more "brainstorming" what one can do with the system or what new systems one can create.

But even the House Rules forum has sometimes to fight with nay-sayers. "No, don't house-rule this, you will ruin everything!" without adding anything constructive. Come on, if someone has gone to the House Rules forum, he is not that much interested in hearing "don't house rule" but how to achieve the goals of his house rules, however brilliant, stupid or game-wrecking others might consider these goals.

[Aeson]

Edition War comes to the HIVE!!! Flee! BURN the Heretics!!!

[Phaezen]

Originally Posted by Aeson

Edition War comes to the HIVE!!! Flee! BURN the Heretics!!!

*Brandishes Torch*

We caught a witch may we burn her?

[Aeson]

My birthday is coming up. I don't feel like doing anything with my friends or family. I kind of feel like doing nothing at all or going alone so at least I get to do what, when, and how I want to do it.

[Blackrat]

Originally Posted by Aeson

I kind of feel like doing nothing at all or going alone so at least I get to do what, when, and how I want to do it.

You know, that's not half a bad idea. I personally like to spend my birthdays at home, playing and eating a good meal and cake If a friend wants to come and visit, sure, but they better not be harassing me about my birthday...

[The_Warlock]

I usually make sure to request my birthday as a vacation day so I don't even have to go to work.

Then the nearest convenient evening, I invite people over to play console or board games, and bring pot luck food.

That way I don't have to cook either.