I added a short recap of session #2. If you have any questions about my notes or if you would like to ask Severus or Brytan additional questions during the night, please ask them here. I don't check this much these days, so also send a reminder email. (I'd still like to record the discussion here so I'd rather not discuss in email.)
Most of your PCs know that the flying fortresses had magic defenses. These were often similar to the 6th level spell "guards & wards"; some of them could be quite potent and make the defnders immune to the obscuring and mobility hampering effects and even could allow the defenders to use summon monster effects throughout the castle to create instant defenders.
The party should speak to Severus about these to see if they are functioning in Mithguard and what it does. (I'll give you a hint: they are functioning.) I'll have a note to resolve this at the beginning of the session but for the curious, we can do this out of game as well. I'll post this on EnWorld and followups should be there (if any).
(Jim, we'll need to work something up for Castelleon as well).
Marc
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
Thanks everyone for a good session. Seemed to keep everyone on track and engaged with a reasonably on time ending.
There are a number of loose ends to wrap up. Since the plan is to game again in one week, we will not have a lot of time off-line to wrap things up. So, I am going to list the items I know about and the "default" outcome that will occur unless the group proposes and agrees to something else.
Game play will start a week after the attack on Mithguard.
Loot. Party needs to do a final distribution of loot and probably needs a few more identifies. Yuo can assume Severus will assist you in the identifies in the next few days. We will use Chris' loot list as the master loot list so she will have to post it. The default for loot is that it remains in Azz's bag of holding unless the party distributes it out of game.
Chasya as part of her class feature can summon magic shields so she does not need the +1 steel shield the party gave her. Chasya puts the shield back in the bag of holding.
Brytan's room. A search of that room reveals an Efreeti bottle and a cap of sending. The latter lets you do one sending per day. Note that the Efreeti imprisons a real live being (albeit an evil being). There may be moral issues for the LG folks in using such a bottle. Depending on why he is in the bottle, you may not need to release him (maybe he deserves it) but using an imprisoned being for your own ends is immoral. Default action: both the cap of sending and the efreeti bottle go into the bag of holding.
You have two enemy captives, the Erinyes Pakara, and the old green dragon Acrilug. Note that as a general rule even the forces of Mottul do not execute captives, although they do require heavy ransom. Of course, it is rather difficult for you to move and imprison an old dragon, at least not without some cooperation from the dragon. As long as you appear to be following normal procedures for a captive, you can expect cooperation. The default action for the captives is suggested by Draeca and it is the following:Mithguard is Duchess Orena's posession, you 'give' the two captives to her and allow her to keep the ransom. In return, she will not make a fuss about any of the loot taken in the battle (tradition allows you to keep the loot but Duchesses have been known to demand a share in similar circumstances.) This is fairly generous on your part but it also means you don't need to deal with either captive. The Duchess assures you that ransom negoatiations will take at least one year so neither will be fighting you again any time soon.
You hold the traitor Brytan. He is not considered a captured enemy combatant like the previous two. Traditionally, captives in similar circumstances can be dealt with as their lord sees fit. In this case, the Lord is Duchess Orena. Default action: Brytan is turned over to Orena. Hard to say what she will do but most likely, he will either be executed or imprisoned indefinitely (this could easily mean decades of imprisonment.)
The mercury and control rod. The mercury is not yours. Default:it remains in Mithguard. The control rod is arguably yours as a spoil of victory. Default:Severus claims the real control rod as his share of loot.
The fake control rod seems to have no magical value. It has instrinsic metal and gem value of about 250,000GP. It also appears to have some sort of epic level Nystul's magic aura on it. The rod was found on Mithguard by Severus and is therefore not your rod. Default: Duchess Orena claims it.
Mithguard is the possession of Duchess Orena. The default path is that Duches Orena keeps the fortress, the real control rod and the mercury and does what she wishes with it (which probably means she makes it operational and moves it to her palace.)
Some of these default paths will likely not be to the party's liking but these are the ones that will occur unless the party makes some effort to change the path.
In particular, I would caution you to pay attention to the default path regarding the control rods (real and fake) and the flying fortress. The party technically has the best claim for the real control rod as they captured Acrilug and get his items as loot which includes the rod. But Severus and Orena will use brute force to claim it unless you do something. Your options on the real control rod:
Take it and run with it.
Trade it to Orena in return for loot, such as the fake rod.
Give it to her in return for something, such as being the Catellan of Mithguard or use of it, or something else.
Go with the default action and watch the powerful shape events to suit their whims.
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
There are lots of things to discuss. First, I think Suchet needs to be the one to present the "deal" we decide upon to the Duchess as I think she is our most charismatic negotiator ... we should check our Diplomacy skills to verify.
There is no way we can allow these people to fly Mithguard ... it would only result in another flying fortress in the hands of Mottul. I think we would all agree that Mithguard would be in the hands of Mottul were it not for our actions. They didn't even know they were in trouble whereas we came from "halfway across the world" to save them (and just in time).
I'm fairly certain the Duchess would not like to see more huge, old dragons at the heads of undead armies heading her way which will very likely be the case should she try to fly Mithguard. We need to make this point very clear to her ... we shouldn't embarass her or her duchy, but we should sound her out on how willing she is to go "toe-to-toe" w/ the armies of Mottul making it quite clear that the king was unable to withstand such an assault.
Also, not wanting to underestimate or undervalue the work of the Duchess and Severus in discovering these ancient secrets, we should be willing to make sure that they are greatly rewarded for their efforts. The ransom for a dragon such as Acrilug will no doubt be huge and we should allow her to keep all of it. Also, I don't think there's any loot that jumps out as stuff we have to have. So, it seems we could use the loot to sweeten the deal if necessary.
If the Duchess recognizes the soundness of these arguments (she gets lots of money at the risk of very little threat from Mottul), we need to decide what to do w/ the control rods and mercury. My suggestion would be to take them to Castelleon and determine how much more mercury we would need to fly a more substantial fortress ... one that may more easily be able to deal w/ the forces of Mottul (for starters it has Leonus as it's steward as compared to Severus).
How does everyone feel about such a plan?
Princep
__________________ "Get her? ... That was your plan? ... Get her?"
There are lots of things to discuss. First, I think Suchet needs to be the one to present the "deal" we decide upon to the Duchess as I think she is our most charismatic negotiator ... we should check our Diplomacy skills to verify.
Suchet has no ranks in diplomacy. It's probably Draeca who has the best or a paladin. Diplomacy is only a class skill for Paladins, rogues and clerics, I think. Draeca is full up on diplomacy ranks and has a good charisma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivousplay
There is no way we can allow these people to fly Mithguard ... it would only result in another flying fortress in the hands of Mottul. I think we would all agree that Mithguard would be in the hands of Mottul were it not for our actions. They didn't even know they were in trouble whereas we came from "halfway across the world" to save them (and just in time).
You can be certain that Orena will not see it this way. Should she even bother to respond to such a characterization of her policies :-), she would observe that it was properly garrisoned as the hulk all thought it to be. Now that it is known to be operational, it will be garrisoned accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivousplay
I'm fairly certain the Duchess would not like to see more huge, old dragons at the heads of undead armies heading her way which will very likely be the case should she try to fly Mithguard. We need to make this point very clear to her ... we shouldn't embarass her or her duchy, but we should sound her out on how willing she is to go "toe-to-toe" w/ the armies of Mottul making it quite clear that the king was unable to withstand such an assault.
Also, not wanting to underestimate or undervalue the work of the Duchess and Severus in discovering these ancient secrets, we should be willing to make sure that they are greatly rewarded for their efforts. The ransom for a dragon such as Acrilug will no doubt be huge and we should allow her to keep all of it. Also, I don't think there's any loot that jumps out as stuff we have to have. So, it seems we could use the loot to sweeten the deal if necessary.
If the Duchess recognizes the soundness of these arguments (she gets lots of money at the risk of very little threat from Mottul), we need to decide what to do w/ the control rods and mercury. My suggestion would be to take them to Castelleon and determine how much more mercury we would need to fly a more substantial fortress ... one that may more easily be able to deal w/ the forces of Mottul (for starters it has Leonus as it's steward as compared to Severus).
How does everyone feel about such a plan?
Princep
Draeca will be happy to present the party's plan to Orena, should you select her as the spokesperson. However, Draeca does not believe it to be a successful argument at present. The Duchess will likely recognize that the fortress will make her a target but against that Draeca notes:
1) She will likely believe that she can garrison it at least as well as the party can. You shouldn't take the current garrison as indication of her A-team. Clearly, Mithguard was a backwater until now. While Severus isn't too impressive, Brytan isn't too shabby and the duchess could afford to put him there.
2) The flying fortress is of immense political value. It will make Orena a major player, not to mention providing her and her family with a refugee and a way to leave Eidos should Mottul prove successful. You shouldn't expect her to hand it over without good reason.
3) You should expect the Duchess to use force to seize the rod and fortress if necessary. It is what any archon would have done (except for the one honorable one, Braugh), and like US Senators who all see themselves as President stature, every Duke and Duchess sees themselves as the next Archon.
See next post for some information that will add some other avenues of exploration.
Marc
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
After the party has had a few conversations as above, Acrilug mentions to the next person to check in on him (random check... it's Azz):
Dragons have good ears, as you know. I heard some of your discussion regarding the fortress. If it will soften my ransom, I have things to tell you.
I know how Mottul created the control rod. Moreover, that second rod you have, is, truly, a fake but only in that it has not been enchanted yet. As a starting point for a second rod, you can manufacture no better. Something the Lord of Castelleon might be interested in, no?
Yes, I have things to tell. For the right price. I am sure we can come to an agreement. Quite sure.
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
Just to be clear, I was not recommending that we say the stuff about the ills of flying Mithguard ... it was merely a summary of my feelings about the situation. Sorry if I did not make that clear.
As to Acrilug ... learning the secrets of making a rod would be most valuable. At the moment, I have so little wealth that there is no way I could make a dent in his ransom. I would certainly volunteer to pick up a substantial portion of his ransom for the information, but I don't know how interested the duchess would be in getting an IOU from me. However, if she is going to be too difficult to deal w/ on the rods & mercury, then I would suggest we deal w/ the ransoming of Acrilug as he was our prisoner and leave the duchess to her dilusions of grandeur ... giving us much more flexibility on what we deem "payment."
Princep
__________________ "Get her? ... That was your plan? ... Get her?"
Just to be clear, I was not recommending that we say the stuff about the ills of flying Mithguard ... it was merely a summary of my feelings about the situation. Sorry if I did not make that clear.
Understood; I was just replying in kind. Sort of, a what you could expect if you tried that on her bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivousplay
As to Acrilug ... learning the secrets of making a rod would be most valuable. At the moment, I have so little wealth that there is no way I could make a dent in his ransom. I would certainly volunteer to pick up a substantial portion of his ransom for the information, but I don't know how interested the duchess would be in getting an IOU from me. However, if she is going to be too difficult to deal w/ on the rods & mercury, then I would suggest we deal w/ the ransoming of Acrilug as he was our prisoner and leave the duchess to her dilusions of grandeur ... giving us much more flexibility on what we deem "payment."
Princep
The Duchess only comes into play for Acrilug if you hand him over to her as a gift or in return for something. Otherwise, he is yours to do with as you please. You are free to negotiate his own ransom, for loot or information or some combination thereof, as you see fit.
If you don't want to get Orena involved, you could just negotiate something with Acrilug. Info for his freedom. Info + loot for his freedom. Whatever you feel appropriate.
Marc
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
It seems that the best way to accomplish our goals (protect and re-unite Eidos) require that we get our flying fortresses afloat with as much garrison as possible.
There are many issues which I will try to list here with a plan that summarizes how we can deal with as many of them as possible.
1). Duchess Orena is a young noble very interested in power; flying Mithguard would be a huge feather in her cap.
2). The real control rod and the ransom for Acrilug by all rights belong to the party.
3). The false control rod is the property of Duchess Orena / Severus.
4). Acrilug posseses information that we could use to transform the false control rod into a real control rod; he is willing to do this for a reduction in his ransom.
Because Orena wants to play an important role in the re-unified Eidos, we need to bring someone to the table who can help her attain such a position ...I suggest Fina who most of us are associated with. If we could convince Orena to fly Mithguard only after we have Castelleon flying and could properly garrison the two, we could use them as the centerpiece to take on the forces of Mottul.
Princep suggests that we use Acrilug's information to find out how to fly Castelleon and transform the false control rod into a functional control rod. Once we have enough mercury to fly both fortresses, we create a "Flying Fortress Cavalry" that is garrisoned by the party, and any forces that Fina and Orena can give. Fina and Orena can be the powers in the new world; Princep having sacrificed his lands to sweeten the deal for Orena, would like to be in charge of the "flying fortresses."
Acrilug will agree to this because his ransom will be reduced to nothing because of the information he will provide; this will allow him to get back to his hoarde before the forces of Mottul acquire it ... he is not attached to Mottul, but is a "free-agent," so, freeing him doesn't present a great problem.
Having the fortresses operational will greatly help Fina save her lands and will make both Fina and Orena the powers of the new world, once Mottul is pushed back.
On a meta-game note, this will also make for a very interesting (and fighting heavy) campaign as we use the fortresses to fight back Mottul. Our first task will be to speak w/ Acrilug to find out what he knows and to then do whatever is necessary to get Castelleon flying. With that complete, we can take the fight to Mottul.
What does everyone think of this?
Princep
__________________ "Get her? ... That was your plan? ... Get her?"
Before Azz gets started just want to confirm that this is all happening before Orena knows exactly what has taken place and that we have the real control rod. If she knows, we'll need to take a different tact.
I think Princep is on the right track but we might be getting ahead of ourselves a bit.
First let's figure out what to do with the spoils of war we have. If no one can use the magic items we have, we should hold on to them for trade. Or we may want to trade them to Orena in return for good will if we think that will be the most useful purpose for what we have. Otherwise let's trade them for items of greater value.
Second, the mercury and [fake] control rod I carry are not mine and I cannot withhold them from their rightful owner if he asks for them. However, the control rod we took from Acrilug is ours, I do not think we should release it from our control.
Here is what I propose:
1. We do not give any thing to anyone until we are ready to leave. If we need to stall negotiations to make this happen then we should. If we don't we may find ourselves worse off than before with no way out. If Orena tries to take the spoils by force, I will interpret that action as hostile and react accordingly.
2. We bargain with Acrilug- information for his freedom. We ask him to tell us what he is willing to trade for his freedom, this way he may disclose more than if we just ask him for the information on how to make the rod. We should brainstorm to see what he might know that would be of interest to us i.e. how to make the rod, the layout of the Mottul fortress, their defenses, garrison and so on. We should use the detect lies spell as we did with Bryton. part of any bargain we make wiht Actrilug is to make him give his word that he will not aid Mottul forces in anyway for the duration of the current conflict. [ we may need to word the requirement of that promise better. He is LE and will abide by the bargin to the letter but will use any loophole to his advantage]
3. We trade Severus the mercury and his source information, for the secret on how to make the fake control rod real. This way we own the mercury, and have the real control rod and have a line on more mercury. Serverus will have the fake control rod and the secret to making it real, thus assuring him a high position in Orena's eyes (she'll need him at least) and giving us a potential ally. We will have the mercury and the control rod and a place to find more if we need it so we can secure Princep's fortress. While we are doing that Serverus will need to gather more mercury and convert the rod. This will take time which Orena will hopefully use to repair and garrison the fotress so when it works it will be properly protected.
4. We give Orena Pakara as a ransom hostage. Orena can keep the ransom. Not as nice as the dragon but there is really not any good way to keep an old dragon for any length of time anyhow.
5. We turn Bryton over to Orena for trial as a traitor. His fate is now at the mercy of the court.
Orena may feel that she is not getting a good bargin but i thnk Princep's sugestion of offering aliance when his fotress is ready and taking on the Mottul fotress will increase both parties fame and prestige.
I'm not sure why Princep feels he needs to sacrifice his lands. Orena may want more out of the deal but even if she forces us to give her all the loot she will have less then if she allies with Fina (us).
i suggest we blend the two plans and get the most that we can while dealing fairly with Orena and Serverus.
Metagame stuff. - Azz has a 20 CHR and so + 20 in Dilplomacy don't kow if this is any better than anyone else in the party. he also may have a better change of negotiating with Acrilug. Azz is well known among dragons.
__________________ Luck often will save a man,
If his courage holds.
I'll be specifically quoting from Chris but this will be written with Jim's posts in mind as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
Before Azz gets started just want to confirm that this is all happening before Orena knows exactly what has taken place and that we have the real control rod. If she knows, we'll need to take a different tact.
Within reason, these discussion all happen before contact with Orena. However, her garrison is present and while you can find a quiet place to hide, as the dragon demonstrated earlier, you can be overheard and even with out a dragon, there are various spy spells that Severus, Orena or Orena's cohorts can use to listen in. I don't think anyone in the party has anyti-scry magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
First let's figure out what to do with the spoils of war we have. If no one can use the magic items we have, we should hold on to them for trade. Or we may want to trade them to Orena in return for good will if we think that will be the most useful purpose for what we have. Otherwise let's trade them for items of greater value.
If we can quickly, out of game, resolve the major plot direction and Orena remains friendly with you, then we can see what she'd offer for your loot. Otherwise, it will remain in the loot bag for now and you can look to sell or trade it later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
2. We bargain with Acrilug- information for his freedom. We ask him to tell us what he is willing to trade for his freedom, this way he may disclose more than if we just ask him for the information on how to make the rod. We should brainstorm to see what he might know that would be of interest to us i.e. how to make the rod, the layout of the Mottul fortress, their defenses, garrison and so on. We should use the detect lies spell as we did with Bryton. part of any bargain we make wiht Actrilug is to make him give his word that he will not aid Mottul forces in anyway for the duration of the current conflict. [ we may need to word the requirement of that promise better. He is LE and will abide by the bargin to the letter but will use any loophole to his advantage]
Acrilug will offer the following in return for immediate release and no ransom:
1) No hostile action for one year against Eidos. More than that he will not promise unless you buy him off.
2) He will describe what he knows of the Mottul fortress, the Mottul battle plan, the Mottul leadership.
3) He will describe what he knows about how to create a rod and assures you this information is sufficient to make a rod. (I.e., he claims he will not tell just half the story about making a rod.)
As soon as you come to agreement with Acrilug, I will post his information (for metagame purposes, I will likely post just #3 in its entirety for now. #1 and and #2 will take more work to create.)
This information may affect your other decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
3. We trade Severus the mercury and his source information, for the secret on how to make the fake control rod real. This way we own the mercury, and have the real control rod and have a line on more mercury. Serverus will have the fake control rod and the secret to making it real, thus assuring him a high position in Orena's eyes (she'll need him at least) and giving us a potential ally. We will have the mercury and the control rod and a place to find more if we need it so we can secure Princep's fortress. While we are doing that Serverus will need to gather more mercury and convert the rod. This will take time which Orena will hopefully use to repair and garrison the fotress so when it works it will be properly protected.
Severus will not part with the mercury. He feels denying it to Orena, his liege, would be quite foolish.
He'd very much like to know the secrets of creating the rod. But he grudgingly admits that the only other thing you ask of him (sources for the mercury) are of limited value because he thinks he has exhausted their supplies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
4. We give Orena Pakara as a ransom hostage. Orena can keep the ransom. Not as nice as the dragon but there is really not any good way to keep an old dragon for any length of time anyhow.
5. We turn Bryton over to Orena for trial as a traitor. His fate is now at the mercy of the court.
Let's assume Pakara and Brytan to Orena is a given for now. If you go down a path where Orena is unfriendly, you can reconsider later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
Orena may feel that she is not getting a good bargin but i thnk Princep's sugestion of offering aliance when his fotress is ready and taking on the Mottul fotress will increase both parties fame and prestige.
Draeca cautions you to be careful with Orena. With a Duchess, "right" may not hold as much sway as "what she really wants". Given the portals she controls and the current state of affairs in Eidos, it would not be good for Eidos to cause a rift between Orena and Fina.
Your association with Fina cuts both ways. That is, negative actions on your part will reflect on Fina. Piss Orena off and she may extend the feeling to Fina.
It is certainly isn't fair but it is a real risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Bigger
Metagame stuff. - Azz has a 20 CHR and so + 20 in Dilplomacy don't kow if this is any better than anyone else in the party. he also may have a better change of negotiating with Acrilug. Azz is well known among dragons.
Draeca has similar Charisma but somewhat lower diplomacy, even with some synergies. Draeca is happy to let Azz do the negotiating. She can put voice of the dragon on you for an extra +10 (unless you get a racial bonus of +10 for being a dragon, this spell should still work for you.)
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
Based on Princep's suggestion (and some side bar with Chris that indicates Azz concurs), the following has occurred out of game:
The ransom is negotiated as follows:
Azz does the communication. Draeca and Princep observe. Muscle is provided by the rest of the party.
Draeca casts discern lie and voice of the dragon on Azz, Princep and Draeca (assuming they can be cast on others, if not just herself).
The terms are:
Acrilug pays no cash for ransom.
Acrilug agrees not harm Eidos for one year.
Acrilug provides information on the Mottul forces and fortress [I'll write this up later; don't let me forget]
Acrilug says the following about creating control rods:
There are none in Mottul who can create these rods. The magic required is of the highest strength. All thought only an Archon could manage it but I did find one who could do it: Trasutha the Lost Archon. Yes, she still lives. And I found her in the Misty Isles. She is as ornery and crusty as ever but she enchanted the rod you now posses. The fake rod you have was also intended for enchantment but was left unenchanted to be used as a decoy.
Trasutha lives on Padmiron Isle. This isle lies on the lowest level deep in the mists. She has selected Padmiron because it is large and infested with evil creatures so that she is not troubled by many visitors.
For the first two rods [the one you have and the one in the Mottul fortress], Trasutha requested two tasks. I imagine she will require a third task from you for your rod for she isnot interested in wealth nor magic. What this, I cannot say. I did not perform the earlier tasks but they seemed to involve acquiring knowledging or traveling to certain places.
Just about everyone has heard of Trasutha. She was one of the Archons in the Age of archons. She stepped down from her domains and disappeared. She has been sighted a number of times of the centuries but she is still refered to as the Lost Archon. She was always independent and was not allied with Osrid (Mottul's archon) or Marquilla (Eidos' archon).
[In the interests of time, since I need time to prepare] Draeca will suggest the following:
I assume Princep, Gel or Leonus could find a portal path for us to this place but it may be much faster and safer to activate Mithguard and fly it there. In return for giving Orena the control rod she needs to fly Mithguard, we could acquire a garrison for the castle (to protect it while we are galavanting about Padmiron and other places) and the use of the fortress to get to Padmiron. Tihs gives her the fortress and a high profile role but also removes the fortress from Eidos until we have both Mithguard and Castelleon available to us. This assumes that in addition to a working control rod, we could return from the jaunt with sufficient mercury to fly Castelleon.
__________________ Marc
___
Certain death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
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