I don't know about everyone else, but I know that I don't want to read through a 400 or 500 page pdf unless I know what I'm looking for.
That's a good, valid and fair point.
I should note I use two monitors, one of which is tilted portrait to view docs on. And I'm considering hooking up my 32" Sony Bravia HD TV as my sole desktop monitor instead, which would provide a lot of screen real estate....
A possible reason that it wouldn't be carried is because they can't compete with the prices. A possible reason the FLGS or LGS does not exist is because of the fact they can't sell material if it's available considerably cheaper as PDF.
Or perhaps its as two of the folks have already said, and I'll reiterate myself:
We have really really suck donkey rear FLGS that we probably wouldnt pee on if it was on fire, and would rather order it online......
I know the 2 "local" ones(local meaning its 45 minutes to an hour to get to) really doesnt carry anything I'm interested in. Not unless I'm into card games or paintball or 4e....
Don't popular PDFs drive up books sales if those books get used in actual games? Since Pathfinder is actually being played, I don't think the LGS have much to worry about.
I tend to buy most of my games as PDF only now - no green house gas emissions given off, no cutting down trees or wasting other natural resources just to print and ship it to me, be that to the FLGS or my house directly. I buy a lot more ebooks and magazines for the same reason. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but I've really been trying to reduce my carbon footprint the last few years. Every little bit helps.
Huh.
I was just thinking how much I enjoy a fresh copy of the rules every session.
I was planning to print out my copy on glossy, bleached white paper, and then make a special drive across town, with the windows down and the AC cranked, so that I can toss the "used" PDF into an incinerator.
Actually, I think this is the best strategy for Paizo.
There's some resistance to Paizo taking on the 3e banner, and investing in an expensive book is a risk. If I remember correctly, they've said they would not do anything like an SRD (where you get all the rules for free).
So the PDF is a good investment--while it may compete with the print product, it still puts money in the hands of Paizo, and has the benefit of getting more people to try the rules.
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Awesome Paizo!
Before I knew the price, I was only planning to buy the pdf. Now I'm going to buy both the physical book and the pdf. Very cool, and a very smart business move (model). Perhaps if another, certain, RPG company had gone this route, maybe they wouldn't have had the problems with pdf's that they encountered.
I guess it helps being able to benefit from others mistakes, but it's win-win for me no matter what led you guys to this decision. Pathfinder and Trailblazer are going to be my only real RPG purchases this year. I think I may have to start looking into a subscription also (especially since I've cancelled my subscription at that aforemmentioned, other, RPG company).
Keep up the good work, and keep the prices reasonable, and you'll continue to have your devoted customers.
Thanks Paizo!
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Actually, I think this is the best strategy for Paizo.
There's some resistance to Paizo taking on the 3e banner, and investing in an expensive book is a risk. If I remember correctly, they've said they would not do anything like an SRD (where you get all the rules for free).
So the PDF is a good investment--while it may compete with the print product, it still puts money in the hands of Paizo, and has the benefit of getting more people to try the rules.
Paizo isn't doing an SRD, but fans have created a couple, one here.
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Wow. I thought I was going to pass on the PFRPG due to the $50 price tag and stick with just beta and any OGC that showed up in stuff like online srds, possibly picking it up in five years or so if used ones came down significantly in price. $10 for a pdf of it is something I will buy immediately.
Still too bad they are not putting out their own srd of just rules with no art for ease of online game use and for other publishers to latch onto for PF support products, but $10 is good for a pdf of the whole thing with the art.
This seems like a really great decision to me. I do not buy into the assertion that this will hurt FLGS in any way. The way I see it, is that Paizo has a pretty good fanbase that already had every intention of buying the printed book before this PDF price was announced.
I think such a cheap price on the PDF will actually put the rules into the hands of folks who would not of otherwise given the rules a day in court. If the rules are decent, then I cannot help but think that some of these folks attracted by the $9.99 price point may in fact buy the hardcover book, or perhaps purchase additional supplemental material.
Sure on the other hand you may end up with some fans who looking at the 10 dollar price point decide to go exclusively PDF with their purchases who may have otherwise purchased a hard cover. But the real bet that I feel is being hedged by Paizo in my eyes is that:
The number of folks that decide not to buy into the rule sets physical products will because of cheap PDF pricing will pale in comparison to the amount of customers that could be attracted to the system by the cheap PDF pricing that would not have otherwise paid money to do so.
It is a fairly simple concept. It is my opinion that most folks already had a pretty good idea of whether or not they intended to buy the PFRPG before this announcement. I do not see any folks in this thread saying that they refuse to buy it because of the cheap PDF. But what I do see are people saying that they will be giving the PDF a day in court because of the pricing.
So Paizo wins in two ways:
1. They sell cheap PDFs to customers who typically only buy printed books because of the cheap price point (this sell in most cases will be in addition to a hard copy, but in some cases, admittedly they may lose the hard copy sale. But I feel this will be the exception rather than the rule).
2. They sell PDFs to customers who would have otherwise avoided the system entirely. This is a big win. If the system ends up being good, then some of these customers may come back and buy other products. I would be willing to bet that some of them may even buy them from FLGs.
The only way that this move can be bad for FLGs is if: The number of folks who would be buying hard copies but instead choose to buy only PDF as a result of the change is LESS THAN the number of folks attracted to the cheap PDF pricing to audit the system, that actually decide they like it and choose to support it with hard copy purchases.
(This assertion does not imply purchasing habit. It assumes that among PF fans and those who are unsold on the system, that the ratio of folks who support their FLGS is the same. The assertion means little to a local FLGS when it is applied to a customer that buys their hard copy from an online distributor, as then the issue is moot because that is not a sale lost or gained by the FLGS)
But of course this post is entirely my own opinion and speculation, and it certainly should not be considered fact, but rather m own educated guess.
no green house gas emissions given off, no cutting down trees or wasting other natural resources
So instead of using resources once, you'd rather use an electronic device which keeps burning and burning and burning those precious resources for as long as you want to look at the product? Okay...
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Last edited by Alikar; 26th June 2009 at 04:34 PM..
Brilliant move, Paizo. Count me in on the crowd that is going to be buying the hardcover and the pdf.
As far as the FLGS argument, well I've yet to see one that I feel sympathy for. There are three gaming stores in town that I am aware of (Columbus) and in all three of them when I have walked in I have been treated like a rude interruption rather than a customer.
I'm not asking for top-shelf super friendly treatment. I just don't want to be ignored or frowned at like I must have walked into the wrong place.
No joke...at one of the stores the guy behind the counter was painting minis, didn't speak to me once, and when I came to check out he pointed to the price on the register. Never said one word to me, although he would talk to his friends who were playing Warhammer.
Considering our lack of even average gaming stores here, I feel no pity about buying elsewhere.
1. I'm sure this hurts local gaming stores. Its true that a physical copy is not the same product as a pdf, and therefore pdfs are not in complete, 100% zero sum competition with hard copy books. But they are in SOME competition. There is SOME trade off. I personally suspect that the trade off is significant, but that has a lot to do with the fact that I am, as we speak, gleefully saving money by purchasing a DDI subscription and absolutely zero hard cover WotC products. For my wallet, the trade off is 100%.
2. But Paizo doesn't have an obligation to support local gaming stores. Local gaming stores are businesses, not charities or ethical causes.
3. Whether this will, or should, cause gaming stores to not promote Pathfinder depends less on the price of this particular product than it does on the likelihood of selling future products. If this is the first part of a trend of significantly lower prices for pdfs than for hard cover books, I would be nervous as a gaming store owner about recommending Pathfinder to people. I'd market products I was more confident that I'd personally be able to sell in the future. If this is NOT part of a trend, then I might not care.
4. Whether Paizo should care if gaming stores care (got that?) depends on whether the lost revenue through the loss of active promotion by gaming store owners is outweighed by the advantages of selling direct pdfs over indirectly selling physical products. The first has much lower overhead than the second, and in any case many gaming stores are notoriously bad at promoting rpgs. So maybe not much is being lost.
Its all business. For everyone involved, its all business. Some fans will no doubt make purchases based on perceived ethical concerns (support for cheap online pdf sales is an ethical plus to some people for reasons I don't entirely understand, support for local gaming stores is an ethical plus for others for reasons I understand but do not share), but the true victors in this matter will be those companies who successfully exploit for profit these ethical stances amongst their consumer base.
No joke...at one of the stores the guy behind the counter was painting minis, didn't speak to me once, and when I came to check out he pointed to the price on the register. Never said one word to me, although he would talk to his friends who were playing Warhammer.
Other than books sold through it own website, Paizo probably will net between $20 and $25 per copy sold through traditional channels, right (40%-50%)?
Given that, the $9.99 .pdf seems reasonable (or about 1/2 the revenue from a print copy).
While there will certainly be a subset that only chooses to spend $10 on the pdf version (for whatever reason - finances, interest, etc.) of the product (and forgo the print product), I would think that this is a small minority.
There's no way in Hell I would want a full-color 576-page book to only be available to me electronically. My eyes would implode trying to read all of that. I use .pdfs as references, and for cutting and pasting, but not for books I want to really dive into and read significant sections. I would either have to print them out (and printing out 576 pages isn't happening) or buy the printed copy.
I downloaded the beta and skimmed through it on my computer before the print copy arrived and very quickly decided that I'd wait for my print copy before giving it a good read.
I just wanted to say that if I choose to only buy the PDF at $9.99 from the Paizo website (and I absolutely will), my FLGS benefits because I'll be buying more minis, dice, and other accessories from the FLGS.
Making the core rules available at the right price helps the FLGS, in my opinion.
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