Will Pathfinder be the fix?

[Obryn]

Every RPG I've ever played - and this includes different editions of D&D - is a different game, and I try to treat them as such.

I have yet to find any game which fills all my gaming needs perfectly. In fact, I don't think it can exist, because sometimes I want a lighter game, and sometimes I want a heavier one. This isn't even remotely a problem - it's why different RPGs exist, IMO.

When I want oldschool, I play 1e. When I want newschool, I play 4e. When I want horror, I play CoC d20. I don't think any single game could - or should - replace all these.

So, I don't know what Pathfinder would be the fix for, since I don't see a problem. It will be another good game, I'm sure!

-O

[Darrin Drader]

I've been scratching that itch with Pathfinder Beta and Castles and Crusades for a while now. I've also developed a newfound love for Arkham Horror and I've been scratching a lot of itch with that game lately.

[Stalker0]

I think Pathfinder will be the fix for some of the issues people had with 3e. Will it be a complete cure....no, its not radical enough a change to fix some of the bigger issues.

But if 3e is your cup of tea and your looking for the next improvement, I think it could definitely fill that niche.

[Aus_Snow]

Pathfinder will be a fantastic game, I suspect. Heard about that GM's Manual? Awesome stuff, if even half of it is true!

Other fantasy games that deserve mention, IMO: Reign and Pendragon. There is a little crossover there, but not much. The former has some interesting rules for companies as (more or less) entities that can be run directly, and also uses one of the neatest dice mechanics anywhere. The latter is a classic from way back, but still offers much to the modern gamer, such as the Traits and Passions subsystems, whereby personality traits and, well, passions of various kinds, have a game effect (as well as a roleplaying one, naturally), plus a lovingly detailed setting - which will be partly familiar to many, of course, and resonant for most - that provides plenty of good stuff that might even be used in other settings, so long as they're not hella far removed from those roots of history and myth.

You seem to be seeking, so I felt I kinda had to pimp a couple of noteworthy options. Anyway, hope you find what you're looking for.

[Sanzuo]

I'm going to ask a completely stupid question... but what is the deal with Pathfinder? As of yet my local place hasn't picked up a book for me to look through and to be honest I don't know if I have the will to check it out. The impression I got is that it's D&D 3rd edition for people who don't want to play 4e. (That seems to be the case for one guy I know.)

Is there a Pathfinder FAQ anywhere I can skim through? What makes this game so appealing to people? This is a serious question.

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by Sanzuo

Is there a Pathfinder FAQ anywhere I can skim through?

There might be, but you could do worse than start here, anyway.

[Shades of Green]

I use BFRPG to scratch my itch. While it is inspired by older-school D&D, it also has some modern sensibilities (such as AC going up and a Base Attack Bonus instead of THAC0), and is very, very easy to prep and run. It is also free and it has a good community producing heaps of useful fan material for it.

[SilvercatMoonpaw2]

Originally Posted by ashockney

What game system are you using for this and how does it support your game? Sounds interesting!

Which game? We've played:

3.5 Eberron. Twice.
Completely without rules of any kind. (I started this one)
Mutants&Masterminds 2e.
Pathfinder Beta.
Star Wars Saga.

But I don't entirely understand what you mean by "use" and "support". Sure, we said we were using the systems to figure out what level of power character X was in relation to character Y, but in actual play we ignored that in favor of narrative power. And in cases like SWSaga we might have taken the example of the system that you couldn't bring in magic..........but that just meant we had to cloak anything odd in the language of the setting. The actual system is irrelevant once you figure out the framework you want to pull off.

It can be tricky sometimes. You have the usual issues of power-players compounded because there's nothing holding them back. Since everyone is going to end up playing everyone else's character at some point you have to trust each other not to screw over someone else's character, and you have to be willing to work with or around someone else's portrayal. It takes players willing to let and make their characters be idiots and failures.

But it's great for unusual concepts that the rules can't really handle, characters of different power levels who still manage to be equally useful, and characters who would otherwise die quickly.

[Barcode]

Originally Posted by Darrin Drader

I've been scratching that itch with Pathfinder Beta and Castles and Crusades for a while now. I've also developed a newfound love for Arkham Horror and I've been scratching a lot of itch with that game lately.

You don't find it unsettling that you can kill a Great Old One with a Tommy Gun? That was a game that had great potential until my group of newbs beat it handily the first 10 times out of the gate.

<snicker> He said gate...

[Mark Plemmons]

Originally Posted by ashockney

So, we started up a campaign of Hack recently, which went parallel to our 4e campaign. It wasn't really close, Hack by a mile. Even though the combat was at times stifling, the party balance is completely out of whack, and my character's "combat effectiveness" is ridiculously bad (I'm a pirate)...we're having a blast.

A pirate, eh? You must be playing HM4th. Have you checked out the new HackMaster Basic edition yet?

[Storminator]

I'm scratching 3 right now.

I'm in a once a month 4e game (lord! once a month is not enough!) that is great fun. It's D&D at it's wood-pushing kill-things-and-take-their-stuff finest. RPing is pretty much limited to mocking the other PCs, mocking your own PC, and fearing the constantly imminent character death.

I'm running a once a month M&M Golden Age game that is the best RPG campaign anyone has ever run. Each session is a standalone issue. We have brilliant villains, the best heroes ever made, and furious quipping in the middle of the fist fights.

And I'm running 4e for my 10 year old and his friend. This might be the best game yet. Imaginative kids that don't know or care about the rules?! Awesome. I recommend that everyone try it. Tho, when your son asks if you want to act out the final defeat of the mummy priest, say no! You'll be the mummy priest!

PS

[Dark Mistress]

Well I think it depends on what you are wanting. I mean each game has good and bad about them, i have never seen the "perfect" system and I doubt i ever do.

I personally play different games for different reasons. For scifi it is Iron Crowns Space master(space version of Rolemaster for those that don't know.) yet for fantasy so far 3e was the closest to what appeals to me the most.(I am hoping Pathfinder fits better) I tried Rolemaster and while there is much I liked about it, there is a couple of things I can't stand about it.

So what game scratches my RP itch depends a lot on what exactly it is I am itching to play.

[malkav666]

Ewww,

Itch Scratching.....Not at my table. As for the games that I am playing right now? I am running a crew of folks through Monte Cook's dungeonaday.com (we are almost to the second level of the dungeon) using the 3.x rule set and I run a bi-weekly game for my wife and a few of our mutual friends that is a RotRL using 3.x/PF beta hybrid. This game will likely be fully converted to the PFRPG when it is released, but we may wait until we finish the campaign and just start the Curse series using the new rules.

I do play other systems. Last weekened my group demoed Hackmaster Basic and had a blast. Combat tracking took us a little getting used to, but it was a really good time. And even though 4e is not really my thing, I do play it with another group of friends every so often. While I don't particularly care for the system all that much, I usually have a really good time at thse games anyway, as I really enjoy the company.

And that is really where the itch is for me. I just want to hang out with my friends and have a few beers (and my friends even let me drink even though there is a chance I may misbehave ) and chuck some dice.

love,

malkav

P.S. Arkham Horror is a fantastic boardgame. My crew has yet to actually "Win" yet, but we have had a blast every time we play it.

[Sylrae]

Pathfinder, from what I've seen/played, is good. It's a revision of 3.5e D&D. But they were trying to keep alot of compatibility with 3.5e D&D, and in the process, didnt revise as much as they should have. (In My Opinion)

4e D&D is a completely different game, with some ties to the last game. It's kindof like going back to 2e, but then altering 2e to be more like world of warcraft. It's enjoyable, but you have many less options in character design, more options for melee characters in combat, strictly defined roles that are hard to deviate from, and in my opinion, makes a good 1 shot, but a bad ongoin game.

[the Jester]

My "real" campaign is presently 4e, but I am working on what I am referring to as "dnd jazz edition", taking bits of design philosophy from each edition with some explicit goals of my own (such as everyone starts at 1st level) and am gradually refining it. I've been running a few playtest games of it as I go- I'm ready to test the cleric, and may have the elf done before long!

What scratches the itch for me?

4e's monster design system. Oh god it's beautiful. Also, the way it does traps, hazards and (in theory, though not always in execution) skill challenges. 4e makes the game easy and fun to run again.

1e's flavor. It drips into my mind like gravy of the soul. Level titles, name level, followers, all the random dungeon dressing charts, the assumption that random encounters would actually be random encounters and not be tailored to the pcs but rather to the area the pcs were in- ahhh, it's a heady, heady thing, 1e flavor.

2e's priest system, if executed right. My old campaign world's religion- which had a huge, well-developed pantheon of gods with unique specialty priests, hundreds of god-unique spells, many 'champion of _________' classes, etc. was awesome and inspiring. Coolest, most interesting edition for clerics- as long as there were no generic clerics.

3's major innovations- feats, the standardization of the d20-higher-is-better mechanic, a truly integrated skill system, etc. Making fighters interesting (again, feats). Fortitude, Reflex and Will. Ascending AC. I could go on for a while here.

I didn't play much before that- a bit of B/X but already admixed with 1e. So I can't speak to earlier editions. But man, if I can capture what I love about each edition in the flavor of my "Jazz Edition" homebrewed DnD, I will be stoked.

[Darrin Drader]

Originally Posted by Barcode

You don't find it unsettling that you can kill a Great Old One with a Tommy Gun? That was a game that had great potential until my group of newbs beat it handily the first 10 times out of the gate.

<snicker> He said gate...

Well, I also find it unsettling that when Azathoth wakes up, it's immediately game over. It's a strategy game, not a roleplaying game, so there are bound to be some things that don't convert properly. At least you can still win the game if the Great Old One awakens.

[TheAuldGrump]

It's all about the tinkering, man.

3.X allows access to a vast library of mechanics that can be cobbled together into the game that I want to run. The OGL actively encouraged a degree of compatible systems that had not been seen before.

So, when I wanted steampunk there was plenty of material, from Fantasy Flight to E.N. Publishing to play with, and when I wanted 17th century wars of religion Mongoose and WotC were both standing by.

Most of this library will also work with Pathfinder, so it keeps my inner rules mechanic happily covered in grease, and waving his wrench merrily, then going back to cussing at the one gear that doesn't quite fit into place.

The Auld Grump

[kitsune9]

Originally Posted by ashockney

So, I'm wondering if I'm the only one with that itch?

1e, 2e, 3e, 4e...been there, done that.

Loved it, by the way. I've had a great time in every edition. I've also got some mad love for Hero Games (particularly Champs), Rolemaster, and my new love: Hackmaster.

So, we started up a campaign of Hack recently, which went parallel to our 4e campaign. It wasn't really close, Hack by a mile. Even though the combat was at times stifling, the party balance is completely out of whack, and my character's "combat effectiveness" is ridiculously bad (I'm a pirate)...we're having a blast.

So, why? I love 4e. Insanely easier to DM, prep, etc. But the characters in Hack are so much RICHER!

I listen to all the podcasts that talk about RP, character aspects, building CHARACTER into your stories, and handing over the reigns of narration. That's sweet. I bought Burning Empires, but....wow. Where would I start, exactly?

So, what exactly's going to scratch that itch? Is it Pathfinder? Is it Hack? Is it 4e? Is it some INDIE HIPPIE GOODNESS, as yet undiscovered?

Is anyone else...here? Has anyone been here, and found a road out of this dense forest?

So here's the rules:
1) No edition wars. Love them all. Don't go there. Tell me how YOU scratch your itch.
2) No rules-systems wars. Love aspects of them all. Let's not go there.
3) Keep it to YOUR experience. I'd like to hear about what you did that WORKED. If you'd like to comment on others experiences, feel free to start your own thread.

Fork off, as it were.

Think this will pass the mod test? Can't wait to find out....

Ah, I see where you're going with this. Sometimes to scratch that itch, I like Warhammer FRP for fantasy and Herogames and Traveller. Back in the early 90's, Top Secret S.I. was da bomb for me.

[LordPsychodin]

for me, its always been - flavor is mutable. I'd just as easily change the elemental descriptors for free for players for spells, and I don't care about reflavoring. PrCs are just add-ons for characters if thats all they want them to be, but if they want to take the full flavor and work with me to make it relevant, I will try as the DM. I like to give my players a large amount of control of where they go an the choice they make. (I've learned very quickly, never pull the "stop or I'll harm the hostage!" anymore, needless to say :-p

[carmachu]

Originally Posted by Barcode

My favorite is still Shadowrun, but mostly for it's setting and atmosphere. The system was interesting, but I ran it for a year and still had to flip through the books during combat. If Paizo comes out with a spellpunk-themed version of Pathfinder and licenses it to WizKids or whoever is holding onto the Shadowrun IP, I'll be their biggest fan. (And yes, I know about Urban Arcana. It's fine, but is missing too much of the flavor. I need my spell drain mechanics to be happy.)

Gods no. I've played/followed shadowrun up to wizkids/whoever is doing it now and 4th ed shadowrun has really sucked the flavor of the game out of the supliments. Its sad.