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When a character gets a bonus of some sort against a certain type of enemy, does that character need to know for sure if/when he is fighting against the specified type in order to get the bonus? If not, having the bonus (or not) gives away the info...
Examples that have come up in my game recently:
Ranger favored enemy
Gnomes getting bonuses against Giants
In the case of the Ranger, one of his favored enemies is Undead. However, his intelligence is really low, Knowledge Religion is not a class skill, and he has no ranks in it. So... it's pretty hard for him to succeed on a monster knowledge check for undead.
Ranger doesn't need to know, playing it any other way is severely nerfing the class and he may as well never pick creature types he doesn't have the corresponding knowledge skill maxed out for, and even then he gets screwed over by disguises / polymorph spells (which iirc in PF do NOT change your type).
If you don't want to give the ranger player metagame knowledge, keep a note of his favored enemies and bonuses behind the DM screen and secretly apply them to his attack and damage rolls. Party might realize the numbers disparity on hitting eventually...but same issue comes up with a bane weapon, so...*shrug*.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
A ranger favored enemy shouldn't be distinguishable by the characters intelligence, or whether or not that person/creature is wearing things befitting of that enemy. A ranger is an expert, and should (hopefully) have some in character reason for having his favored enemy. If the enemy is undead, the character should notice things. He should smell an odd whiff in the air. He should notice the way the creature moves is not quite natural, the way it bends in angles that imply it doesn't feel discomfort the way a living creature would. He should, if nothing else, get bad vibes from it. The character has a reason for hating that enemy, and actively seeks out these signs like some sort of inquisitor.
A ranger should be able to take part in his favored enemy no matter what. And he should be able to distinguish that creature, regardless if he has ever encountered its like before. Just from the over-arching features of that type of creature that distinguish it from others.
All that being said, A ranger shouldn't be able to tell what a creature is without being able to actually observe the creature. If it doesn't move around, doesn't speak, smells heavily of perfume or something, then you wouldn't have any way of knowing. I say this for the sake of a DM, who probably wants to keep the nature of some characters secret until the time is right. And by that point, you will most assuredly have seen enough to confirm what sort of creature it is. (unless your DM is lame and didn't describe him at all)
I believe bulatzi is right. A ranger has a favored enemy because he has specialized in tracking and eliminating targets of that type. He may know nothing of the religion that spawns the undead but their habits,Movements,Smells,Behaviors and natural trails would all give them away to a ranger who hunts such beasts.
I house rule the Favored enemy ability from Extraordinary to a Supernatural ability granted by Spirits of the Hunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylermalan
Should they, being Gnomes, also automatically know when they're fighting Giants?
Dodge bonuses are an active response to being attacked. Once a giant's attack misses because of the 4 point dodge bonus, that would be a good time to tell player their foes use the fighting style of FeeFiFoeFum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylermalan
is there any mechanical advantage to knowing the type of a creature?
Oh yes. Some spells affect certain types and undead need to get into melee before being nuked by the cleric.
So, what then? You pass the Ranger player a note when his Spirit of the Hunt special ability tells him that this creature is Undead and then forbid him to tell the other players?
If your favored enemy is giants, and you're fighting an ogre mage that's polymorphed into a pixie, then you shouldn't get the bonus. If you're fighting an ogre and you're not quite sure whether it's giant or not, you get the bonus.
This is kind of a DM call thing.
If the DM decides you need to roll to identify the enemy as being favored, you should get the bonus to that roll.
If your favored enemy is giants, and you're fighting an ogre mage that's polymorphed into a pixie, then you shouldn't get the bonus.
If you're using a rules system where polymorph changes your creature type, then this is correct. However, since in PF you're mostly just taking on the appearance/shell of a creature but actually becoming it, iirc you do not change creature type. So even though you look like a pixie, you're still an Ogre Mage. Thus FE applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahnehnois
This is kind of a DM call thing.
I disagree. Where does it say a Ranger needs to be aware his foe is a favored enemy to get the bonus? I have never seen such a rule. I've only ever seen DMs on messageboards unnerved by the lack of such a rule for some reason.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
So, what then? You pass the Ranger player a note when his Spirit of the Hunt special ability tells him that this creature is Undead and then forbid him to tell the other players?
If he knows they're undead, why would he be forbidden from telling the other players?
__________________ Writer at Mystic Triad Games. mystictriad.com
If he knows they're undead, why would he be forbidden from telling the other players?
A lot of DMs don't like the prospect of a Ranger automatically IDing their favored enemies and potentially ruining plans the DM may have had to use subterfuge or trickery against the players, possibly as a cornerstone to the plot. Which is why I suggested the "secretly add it in" method.
I personally have no problem with it, I think auto-ID should just be a perk of having that type as your favored enemy, for the reasons bulatzi described. And again, you get this EXACT SAME "problem" with a Bane weapon. And I refuse to treat one of the ranger's major class features as inferior to a +1 weapon property.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
A lot of DMs don't like the prospect of a Ranger automatically IDing their favored enemies...
Oh, definitely. But I think once you get to the point of changing it to a supernatural ability that automatically works, you've already rounded that bend.
__________________ Writer at Mystic Triad Games. mystictriad.com
If you're using a rules system where polymorph changes your creature type, then this is correct. However, since in PF you're mostly just taking on the appearance/shell of a creature but actually becoming it, iirc you do not change creature type. So even though you look like a pixie, you're still an Ogre Mage. Thus FE applies.
I disagree. Where does it say a Ranger needs to be aware his foe is a favored enemy to get the bonus? I have never seen such a rule. I've only ever seen DMs on messageboards unnerved by the lack of such a rule for some reason.
I guess I was distracted by the notion that the bonus exists because of some specific knowledge the attacker has about his prey, as opposed to because the player picked an ability and is somehow entitled to use it whenever fighting something that technically meets the guidelines. I won't argue what the RAW say, but I will say these sorts of things are where I'd exercise my discretion.
If he knows they're undead, why would he be forbidden from telling the other players?
Because the idea is that if knowing the creature's type is valuable information (that gives a combat edge), you wouldn't want the entire group to know just because there's a Ranger in the party.
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