Eadric et. al. (The Paladin and his Friends). - Page 12

Ryan Koppenhaver · 26th July 2003, 04:31 AM

Quote:

...without resorting to NPC-only tricks
(Dark Subsumption, Limitless Reservoir)

Well, heck, the PCs have done plenty of planar binding and whacking combos already. Maybe they should work out a way to get some magical mojo from it.

They could call it Not-So-Much-Dark-Because-Demons-Are-Evil-Anyway- But-Not-Really-"Bright"-Either-Because-They're-Doing-
It-For-Their-Own-Benefit Subsumption.

Cheiromancer · 28th July 2003, 06:49 PM

Ok. A very rough draft of Eadric with Titivilus. The artist suspects that Duke Titivilus is probably much more human-like. This one is based on the 2nd Edition MMII picture.

I'm going to e-mail the artist tomorrow to suggest changes. Then another (much cleaner and more detailed) black and white, and then it gets colored.

Comments? Suggestions?

Cheiromancer · 28th July 2003, 06:54 PM

Oops. Forgot the picture. :rolleyes:

Joshua Randall · 28th July 2003, 09:18 PM

I think the way the characters are posed now, it looks like Titivilus has the upper hand (literally and figuratively). But we know that Eadric more than holds his own in all his conversations with the Duke of Hell. So, I would prefer to see the two on the same level, or at the very least facing each other.

grodog · 29th July 2003, 02:24 AM

I concur Joshua Randall. I don't get the feeling that Ed would willingly allow Titivilus to maneuver into a positional advantage behind him---the pose seems far too trusting to me.

I definitely picture them sparring verbally across a table perhaps---like two chess players---in heated, fierce debate.

I like the details in the image: the goblets, the crest, the sword (though I think he would probably be wearing it, or have it near at hand vs. hanging on the wall; or, perhaps it's not even there?), the fire. Perhaps the chair(s?) would be more functional and less plush/comfy looking?

Sitting, Ed appears to be quite a bit shorter than the devil, which doesn't (for me) jibe with Lombard's description of his tall height (and my 1e perception of Titivilus as more satyr-like from the 1e MM2, where he's 5'6"; see http://www.angelfire.com/games2/laby.../titivilus.gif which is the image I'm talking about). FWIW, I also picture the Eye being larger; I don't know if that is in fact correct, just my perception. Ed should also have that "I've met Tramst look" about him too---that "pregnant glow" if you will; he seems a bit resigned, like he has been beaten, or surrendered---perhaps caused by his downward glance?

Lela · 29th July 2003, 04:55 AM

I, uh, don't like it. Mainly for the reasons mentioned by others.

I've also thought about how Titivilus would look in this kind of situation. Frankly, when talking to a guy like Edric (or anyone with which he is acting as Temptor), I don't think he would look like the common Satyr pictures often seen. Who here would trust someone who looks like that?

He'd have forms more suitible to the situation. These would likely reflect who he was talking too in ways designed to placate and sooth. The same race, gentle, less horns. Those kinds of things. His natural form just wouldn't illicit the response he'd be looking for.

The Eye might be able to percieve this form, I admit (depending on how T does it). A matter of style, really.

Sollir Furryfoot · 29th July 2003, 07:01 AM

Hrm, I dislike the pose of the picture for the same reasons as the others. I liked Sepulchrave's evocative description of Titivilus under his guise, I think its described in their first meeting in the plane that Titivilus was going to offer him (scholarly, erudite, and similar). About the eye-would it be possible to get a sort of transparent pic of him as a devil transposed perhaps? -Er, that would probably be too costly, just a thought.

If it's possible, it might be interesting to use the plane as a background, as I believe that's described as well, of course Eadric's keep might be good as well.

Just some suggestions.

Cheiromancer · 30th July 2003, 04:06 AM

Here's version II.

The artist took grodog's suggestion very much to heart, and the two are portrayed as playing chess! I find it amusing that Eadric looks more fiendish than Titivilus does; perhaps this is the "gotcha!" moment when Titivilus tells him that all dictatorships begin with compassion.

Still fairly rough, but I think we're getting somewhere.

Other comments?

Lela · 30th July 2003, 05:09 AM

I like how Titivilus seems to be at ease. It's not like he doesn't have experience with these kinds of things.

I still think he should be more humanlike though.

Sepulchrave II · 30th July 2003, 02:33 PM

I far prefer the second picture - although I think the reference to chess-playing by grodog is strictly metaphorical.

If one is striving for accuracy (and the second meeting of Titivilus and Eadric did take place in the keep at Deorham), I would suggest the following.

1) Nix the devil's horns. I like his outfit, though - casual and comfortable. Also his pose - he's an old pro at this.

2) Nix the chess set, and bring back the goblets from the 1st picture as the focal piece on the table.

3) If the sword above the mantlepiece is Lukarn, it has a longer hilt and a wider crossguard. Likewise, if the helmet is a reference to Eadric's, it has a bellows visor. I like the coat of arms - although note that Eadric's shield itself is unblazoned (it's also a jousting shield).

If I think of more, I'll let you know...

And thanks, Cheiro.

Sepulchrave II · 30th July 2003, 02:44 PM

While I'm here, his armour (I believe the correct spelling is 'Maximilion') might look something like this:

Cheiromancer · 30th July 2003, 03:09 PM

I love the look of the chess pieces, but I agree that the table has to have goblets (and decanter, too, or bottle). Make Eadric a little less frustrated/demonic,... I definitely think we are getting close.

Incidentally, I have a few more irons in the fire- here is a rough sketch of Crosod and Threxu. I think it is good to go, but now is the time for fine tuning!

Cheiromancer · 30th July 2003, 03:11 PM

Here's a closeup of Threxu.

BTW, these pieces of artwork are being funded out of Bingo winnings. I went with my mom to Bingo, and won $180

Joshua Randall · 30th July 2003, 04:32 PM

I would like to see Titivilus and Eadric looking at each other. After all, this is a contest of wills as much as a theological debate - so should they be looking gazes? Or should Titivilus be "demurely" glancing away as Eadric stares sternly at him? I don't know. But something.

I do like the way Titivilus is at ease and kind of smirky, while Eadric is tense and frowny. That's a nice contrast.

With the fire in the background there could be some interesting lighting effects throughout the piece.

Edit - Crosod & Threxu: isn't the latter described as the "wasted nymph"? She doesn't look too wasted there - she looks damn good! Not that there's anything wrong with lookin' good... I'm just sayin'...

s/LaSH · 31st July 2003, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshua Randall
Crosod & Threxu: isn't the latter described as the "wasted nymph"? She doesn't look too wasted there - she looks damn good! Not that there's anything wrong with lookin' good... I'm just sayin'...

Then allow the artist to comment:

It's a tricky road, getting that 'wasted nymph' look. Part of the very definition of a nymph is unearthly beauty, after all, so I didn't want her to look like a bag of bones. Plus, in this shot she's just fed, so I figure she's going to be a little plumper than previously.

Still, when she's coloured she'll look a little slimmer... I have a few tricks up my sleeve yet, and she's not the sturdiest of figures to begin with.

I've got a few other things that I have to be working on right now, so the time is ripe to comment on this one... I'll come back to it and put in a background and finish detailing Crosod's (redesigned from the mish-mash Monster Manual version) hide and ink/colour it in a few days if nobody points out horrible flaws.

grodog · 31st July 2003, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by s/LaSH [b]It's a tricky road, getting that 'wasted nymph' look. Part of the very definition of a nymph is unearthly beauty, after all, so I didn't want her to look like a bag of bones. Plus, in this shot she's just fed, so I figure she's going to be a little plumper than previously.

FWIW, I took 'wasted' to mean a) her powers and abilities, and b) her physical appearance. I agree, though, that she should still be beautiful.

Both Crosod and Threxu seem mightily real and physical vs. shadowy in their sketch forms. I'll be very curious to see what you do with the coloration on the two figures, the dragon in particular, since conveying the penubmral quality of these characters would be a challenge (or at least so I imagine).

Cheiromancer, this is the one of best uses of Bingo winnings I've heard of yet! Thanks for sharing your largesse with the rest of us!

Joshua Randall · 31st July 2003, 02:40 PM

This may be a minor point, but my impression from Sep's story is that Crosod is much, much bigger than Threxu. However, that might be hard to convey artistically unless you paint on the side of a building or somesuch.

s/LaSH · 1st August 2003, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshua Randall
This may be a minor point, but my impression from Sep's story is that Crosod is much, much bigger than Threxu. However, that might be hard to convey artistically unless you paint on the side of a building or somesuch.

Yeah - getting a 5-6' nymph and a 40+' wyrm into the same picture was nearly impossible. I tried all sorts of layouts before settling on this one, and none of them worked because I wanted Threxu actually on Crosod, and the scale factor was just too big to do both of them justice. I could have done a neat Threxu on a scaly background, or a neat Crosod with a vaguely humanoid blob on one of his arms, but neither of those seemed satisfactory.

When finished, there will be vegetation between her and him. If you haven't noticed, his hands are being obfuscated by the ground between them, and I'll emphasise that when it's done so you realise there's quite a bit of distance between them.

Incidentally, Crosod himself has a few design tweaks from the MM version of a black dragon - hopefully they make him look more unified (I'm actually quite horrified at the mish-mash of themes in the MM version - face ridges, spiky bits, the horns...). But they'll be slightly less visible when he's covered in colour gradients...

Cheiromancer · 1st August 2003, 05:50 AM

Except for a bit of work to get Eadric exactly right, this should be the final sketch. The object by the fireplace is the bottle of firewine (does firewine have to be kept warm?).

Any final tweaks or details? The shield on the wall is decorative, btw; it's not Eadric's main shield.

Is it just me, or is there something odd about the way that Duke Titivilus' arms are folded? I am not an artist, and I'm not used to looking at how things look exactly, so I may just be noticing something that is anatomically correct.

Lela · 1st August 2003, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheiromancer

Is it just me, or is there something odd about the way that Duke Titivilus' arms are folded?

Yeah, it looks pritty weird. Sit back and fold your arms to see it Cheiromancer. Try putting your arms the way they would be in the picture. It just doesn't work quite right.