Challenging my high-lvl group (NPCs and monsters; my players shouldn't read this!)

[Piratecat]

Hammerhead, the Defenders are actually far less combat optimized than most groups of their level should be. You'll like how they finish off these ghouls, though.

I am so stealing the mold/fungus idea.

[DoctorB]

How about a place where all of the inhabitants were neutral or good but have been made undead without realizing they are undead.

The thing that makes it fun is you have people working the fields, selling (rotten or mummified) bread, gossiping with each other, etc. They would even beg for their lives if threatened. Could be an interesting role-playing experience. What if it could be proven to them they are undead?

The leader of the place might be evil, or he/she might have been swept up in the same force that converted the others.

To let the people find rest in death, the party would have to reverse the magic that made it possible (or just kill them all I guess). Maybe a powerful Lich did this deliberately, or even better it was a side-effect of another spell.

[Hammerhead]

Yeah, I know the defenders aren't combat optimized; but they are still high level, well equipped, and most important, smart. Even a powerful pair like twin DDs would be no match for what the Defenders pack.

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I was under the impression that PirateCat uses transparency rules.

[Piratecat]

Transparency rules? I don't understand!

Velenne, cool monster; remember, no con bonus on hit points for undead!

DrB, that's an interesting idea. I saw it done once beautifully, only instead of undead the villagers were self-aware illusions. Caule them to disbelieve in themselves, and they die! A little holodecky, but still cool.

[Scarab]

Have you had a look at the Unfailing prestige class in "Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers?"

Basically, these guys get DR5 immunity to criticals, and the Undying ability, that basically doubles their hit points. When they go below 0 hp, they enter a zombielike state and keep on fighting. They still die at -10, but their bodies keep on fighting until you reduce them to -(maximum hp)... A guy with 100hp wouldn't give up and keep still until he's at -100hp.

This makes a neat image: the guys you just wasted rise up again and keep on fighting. And they don't even count as undead.

...and the book also has the Bonewrack Dragon. 20d10 breath weapon, anyone? And Frightful Presence with DC33 to boot.

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Transparency: In the PsiHnd, this is the default rule. Psionics are treated just like a type of magic. So psionic powers are subject to spell resistance, dispel magic and so forth.

If you use Psionics are Difference, psionics become more flavorful, but probably a little less balanced.

PS Is Tom-Tom's psicrystal a crysmal psicrystal? (If you don't know know what this is, see the Mind's Eye feature at WotC)

PPS Are you ever going to post the Master of Space and Time's stats?

[Piratecat]

Oh, right. Yes, I treat psionics as affecting the standard magical weave, only you're doing it directly with your mind: a more "pure" method, if you ask the psions. I'm not using the "psionics are different" rule.

TomTom's psicrystal "Tee" is a normal one. It's observant, iirc.

I have to convert TMOSAT. I don't have any 3e stats on him!

[Little_Buddha]

2E version would be fine - I love TMOSAT!

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

D'oh! I meant his crystal capacitor.

[Jeremy]

When it comes to creeping out your players (except for Agar) nothing beats tentacles.

Here's a nasty idea for ya that should be a wonderful scene. Around a bend the Defenders come upon 5-12 of the sickly rotting corpses they have been slugging through. The ghouls turn and run, loping along using arms as much as hands, dropping little bits of flesh crawling with maggots behind.

Upon catching up to them, through cautious advance or simply chasing them down, one of them licks a swollen black tongue over it's pitted lips as it heaves aside a boulder/hatch/door sealing off a black pit. Coming screaming out of this pit are a hideous swarm (11-20) of small creatures that on first glance are bats from some terrible nightmare.

Actually they are distorted human heads with stretched, rotting flesh and writhing tentacles hanging from them, they fly on bat wings causing the disembodied heads to bob up and down as they pour out, their jaws distended letting out horrible shrieks from their glowing, smoking green maws.

Vargouille's aren't powerful, with 5 hp each (I give them 9) but they are creepy, epecially to those who tend to use their imaginations to picture creatures rather than Monster Manual images. As undead, any surviving ghouls will be unaffected by their shriek, and if you want it to be more challenging or intimidating you can have undead pour out the hole too, maybe slavering undead that are gnawed upon that were locked away because they wouldn't stop feeding on each other. They stagger out with half eaten arms, faces, etc amidst the screaming vargouilles.

DC 12 Fort saves are absolutely pathetic, but with 11-20 of them, you may have a few people turning up 1's. The vargouilles only do 1d4 damage, so it's more likely to scare than prove lethal, and they are likely to be dropped in very short order. But a flood of bats is scary enough, much less underground and when they have warped screaming human heads with writhing tentacles attached to them.

Hopefully you'll catch 2 or 3 of the defender's paralyzed by them which will allow a little more intimate battle by just a few of the defenders against a little swarm of weak creatures.

In my game everyone's got huge bags of dice, so I'd just have them figure out what they need to fail a DC 12 fort save and have them roll a handful of d20's scanning for that number. (One player would be able to roll all 20 saves at once. You can never have too many dice.)

[Piratecat]

That's just plain fun! Using low-level monsters to scare high-level PCs...

Another option is including a vampire in the swarm of bats, and give him the ability to slam for negative levels despite being in bat form. A crowd of bats comes out and Wham! Velendo is down 2 levels. And no one can see because of the bats, and the corridor is tiny.... and they just keep fluttering and Wham! There got another two levels....

[Jeremy]

<Mr. Burnes stretched smile and tented fingers>

Yes....

[Grim]

ohh! that is almost crossing the limit.

Almost...

but not quite enough to make it pure evil, just really mean and really funny.

Along with the tentical idea, how about a funky undead druid who uses a special version of entangle that causes nasty, slimy, ghoulish, paralysing versions of vines and plants to sprout out of the underdark tunnel and stop people. or possibly a sorcerer and evards black tenticals that paralyse instead of sudualize. See its ok because although undead are mindless, they are not wisdomless and charisma-less.

{evil scary man sits in chair, gets dirt out of fingers with bloody daggar, stares intently at pulsating human heart on table}
"your mine now. Welcome... to the horror."

[Westwind]

Ahh, the joys of DMing the Underdark....

Depending on the resources of the villians the Defenders of the Daybreak are facing, some of these might not make sense in terms of what they run into, but.....

What they see: Narrow corridor to force a tight marching order. The roof of the corridor is covered in roots (or, as an alternative, stone). Players continue along until they realize they`re one short. No noise, no warning, nothing.

What happened: The last person in the marching order passed under an Assassin Vine (eqv.) trap, which promptly used its surprise action to grapple the player and pull them up through its roots (or the illusionary 5x5 section of the ceiling). You might want to give someone a listen check, but the poor victim is gagged and on the other side of an ancient and thick tree, so the DC would be pretty high.
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What they see: Water, water, and more water.

What happened: Great thing about undead is tons of various environmental effects don't affect them. A wall separating an underground city and an underground river collapsed after a few hundred years of erosion. Players now have to spend spell slots on surival spells rather than utility spells, making them slightly weaker vs. the undead (bloated...the visual possibilities here are endless) denzins, who have (of course) adapted to their environment through foul and unnatural magics. I think there's a spell called Dark Water in Relics and Rituals. I used that to great effect when some of my players decided to Spider Climb on a flying Shadow Dragon and he decided to nose-dive a lake. (Str check, Str check, Swim check-don't forget your new Str...heh).
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What they see: A group of Zombies which, somehow, resist all their turning attempts.

What happened: Alas, these aren't Zombies, just skin puppets inhabited by fiendish creatures of Tiny-esque size. Their lack of coordination in the "skin balloon" is what leads to the staggering gait of the Zombie. Strike one in melee and "Hey, look! It`s a gas spore!" and "Hey, look! It's a hive of dire wasps/rot grubs/whatever!"
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Along more role-playing lines, it's always interesting to see what players will do if they find themselves in dire straits. A small enclave of drows, a "good" undead, slave traders, etc. Anything living in the White Kingdom would be afraid of the ghouls. But are the Defenders willing to make alliances with those who might have more knowledge even if it means consorting with unsavory types? Note: This is an adventure in role-playing, not a screw-the-paladins tactic. I love well-played paladins and think one could make it through is soul intact. What price are those dwarves willing to pay for victory?
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Well, more oddly constructed monsters to come. My dnd-deprived brain needed something like this.

[Piratecat]

This is fun. Depending on where they go, they may end up meeting a race of blind, albino, cannibal halflings who tend to develop psionic powers. Wonderful possibilities there!

Two more games or so, and they'll head down for real. I can't wait.

[Black Omega]

Players in my d20 Rokugan game...quit reading!
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Wow, some great ideas in this thread I might just borrow now that my Rokugan game is delving more into the undead. Ghoul monks sound just plain nasty and I've been wanting to work in some monks...

Another idea that just came to mind while reading all the posts on exoskeletons...also a bit inspired by Heroic Trio. A special type of ghoul that if it paralyses you, it can take a full action the next round to flow over your body and basically take control physically. I suppose damage would be done equally to the ghoul and the victim. If the victim is hit with remove paralysis, the victim can try to break free by a grapple check. Not impossibly tough to stop but some groups will have problems with trying to stop the ghouls witout killing the person inside.

[Jeremy]

Rokugan players stay away from this one too.
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There is a spell I remember in which you cast it on a body of liquid, big or small, and it makes a copy of your target (proportionate to the size of the body of liquid---i.e. mug of ale makes a really small replica) that attacks your target. If it touches him, it flows over him and coats him beginning to drown him. And you have to beat on it (and consequently the target) to free him.

I'm positive I've seen it in 3e rules somewhere, so it might give you a good dynamic to work with.

[Velenne]

Ok ok, so you folks weren't too keen on my advanced sphinx? Here's another one from my bag o' tricks:

Ghoul (in this case) Grimlock Paladin 10'ish/Blackguard 10'ish with an advanced Basilisk mount. This is an amalgam of a Dragon article and the first paladin smackdown from the much-lauded Sultans of Smack thread with a few new twists.

If you can manage surpise and/or winning init, I can guarentee you'll have at least 1 dead or stone PC before it's all over. ;p

Doesn't need many magic items to pull of and if the basilisk goes down too fast, the grimlock can deeper darkness (better hope none of the pc's have Daylight memorized just cuz) and either Heal Mount or go to town with a variety of other options.

If you like the idea and think you might want to use it, I can post the full writeup with my intended strategy. Just happens to be underground too.

[Piratecat]

That'd be cool to see, just on general principle!

How about ghoulish monks infested with rot grubs? They wriggle into the PCs when the monk hits them....