[Repost] Nevermore: d20 Dreamscape campaign setting: Looking for input.

[jaldaen]

Hi all this is a continuation of a thread on the old boards... this is just a synopsis of the major stuff I've decided on, please feel free to comment, question or suggest:

Abilities: All abilities would still work the same in a dreamscape campaign setting. Though the mental abilities are the primary stats that effect certain in-dream skills such as dreamweaving, dreamwalking, etc. Also your Charisma modifier gives or takes away a certain amount of temporary hit points while you are in dream.

Races: No dream races as of yet, but I'm open to suggestions if people think that there should be exclusively dream world races. One thing I'm thinking of doing as a variant is having people occasionally "become" something else in the dream (usually appropriate to their level and class) such as a 9th level druid finding himself turned into a treant.

Templates: Characters that enter the setting must chose one of four templates. These include: sleeper, between, awakened, and otherwise.

Sleepers are characters that do not recoqnize that they are in a dream and thus can do many amazing things without thinking about it (they simply accept the dreamworld and what happens in it as normal) though they can suffer a "nightmare" if they fail in their action by too much. Sleepers also cannot die in their dreams, but only gain dream experience (which they can't bring back to the real world) and can only be used to gain dream classes.

Between are characters who are sometimes sleepers and sometime awakened. I'm considering how to determine if a character enters the dream as a sleeper or awakened. My initial thought is to have them make a straight Wisdom check DC 15 to see if they are awakened or not with perhaps a +2 or -2 circumstance modifier to the roll depending on if they are trying to be awakened in the dream or not. But I'm open to suggestions.

Awakened are characters that recognize they are in a dream and thus can do amazing things by force of will, but can suffer a "nightmare" if they critically fail. Awakened suffer subdual damage when they are in the dream (note this carries back with them to the real world). If an awakened is made unconscious in the dream world they must make a fortitude save (DC 10+subdual damage dealt beyond what was needed to make him unconcious) or die. Awakened characters gain about half their experience as real and the other half as dream.

Otherwise are characters that actually physically exist in the dream and can not only do amazing things by force of will, but also are able to control the dream itself. They however suffer real damage while in the dreamworld and are subject to backlashes and "nightmares" (upon critical failures) when they attempt to alter the dream or augment their own abilities by force of will.

There may be other things I think of for these templates but please feel free to make suggestions on them.

More to come,
Joseph

 

[jaldaen]

Skills and Feats

Skills:

Here is what I'm thinking of doing:

1) All of the skills have new surreal mechanics to them. Craft-skills allow you to craft things out of thin air, the climb skill allows you to climb surfaces you normally shouldn't, and the jump skill allows you to jump farther then you should (with increased DC). Also included would be a "nighmare" section dealing with possible nightmare reactions to failed skill checks.

2) Having two new skills: Dreamwalking and Dreamweaving.

Dreamwalking would be a untrained skill that helps to lower the DCs of actions made in the dream. For example: You try to climb a shear surface (normally impossible for most characters, but not so in a dreamscape) the DC is 30, but a successful dreamwalking check versus the local areas "stability" rating (ie how difficult to do surreal things in that environment) allows the character to lower the DC by 5. This is normally a move equivalant action (no AoO), but may be made into a free action by increasing the DC of the check by 5 (note this will probably be restricted to once per round). Failure may result in a "nightmare" episode.

Dreamweaving also is a trained only skill that allows a character to change the dreamscape itself. This is a standard action and draws an attack of opportunity. THe DC is also against an area's stability rating and the area of effect. This skill could produce a door where there was none, change a landscape, drive off a nightmare. Failure may result in a nightmare or backlash.

Feats:

Feats are an interesting condundrum and one that I'm still contemplating, but here is what I'm contemplating thus far...

New Dream Feat Mechanic: Characters who do not have a particular feat may make a dreamwalking check to gain temporary access (1 round) to that feat. The DC depends upon how many prerequisites there are for the feat that the character does not have. Note: Failure may lead to a nightmare.

Surreal Feats: These are feats that are quite different from normal feats and could not be effectively done in the real world. I've got a few such feats in mind, but I'd love to hear some suggestions on these. The two notable ones I've come up with are air-walking and flight, two feats that can be done in a dream but not in the "real world" without the aid of magic.

That's all for now, but there's more to come tommorrow,
Joseph

 

[jaldaen]

Equipment and Combat

Equipment

There are quite a few things you can do in a dream that you can't in the "real" world (without the aid of magic). For example in a dream you can weild huge weapons, tree trunks etc...

So they question is how does one come up with an equipment section for a dreamscape?

One thing I'm considering is having characters capable of creating items out of thin air (with some resctrictions) via the Craft (whatever) skills. These would be temporary items subject to special rules.

Anyway, there would also be the ability to make "permanent" dream items as well at a lower DC, but over a longer period of time. Note: sleepers would not be able to create permanent items only temporary b/c permanent items require in-depth crafting while temporary items are a matter of just "crafting" the image of an item.

What are dream specific items that you all would like to see (besides Final Fantasiesque weapons, etc)?

Combat

As mentioned in the templates section combat and damage are handled differently for each template type ranging from harmless to deadly.

Now one thing I've considered instead of just having Charisma add to a dreamer's hp is to have a seperate attribute to keep track of called "spirit points" (based off of Cha) which would be attacked by certain monsters, can be used to aid you in certain actions, etc...

Now I've put a lot of thought into how dream fighting would work (similar to regular fighting, but with much more "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" cinematic style fighting), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

-Joseph

 

[Rune]

Sounds good. I'll comment more later, when I'm less busy.

 

[Echoes]

Drawing a little from Neil Gaiman's wonderful "Sandman" series of graphic novels (which are a must for anyone designing something like this, methinks), I would suggest that a Dreamscape setting include:

Dream Vortices: Characters, who, by the power of their will or ability to dream, have become a sort of magnet within the dream world, able to influence the dreams of others to an amazing extent. Though in The Sandman a dream vortex is a chance occurance, I think that in the d20 system it might work well as a prestige class once fiddled with...perhaps focusing on the abilities to create things and influence people within the dreamworld.

And, drawing a little from Jeff Noon's science fiction (he's a criminally underappreciated author), I would suggest:

Dodos: Those who cannot enter the dream world at all, making them far stronger in physical reality but locking them forever out of the dreamscape (except, perhaps, by certain magical means--they could be the contacts or grounding forces of a group in the dreaming, keeping them up to date or performing other duties while a group is there).

That's all for now, I'm sure I'll think of some other stuff later. Great campaign idea, and I'm interested to see where it goes.

Laters,
-John-

 

[Rune]

Abilities: All abilities would still work the same in a dreamscape campaign setting. Though the mental abilities are the primary stats that effect certain in-dream skills such as dreamweaving, dreamwalking, etc. Also your Charisma modifier gives or takes away a certain amount of temporary hit points while you are in dream.

Sounds good.

Races: No dream races as of yet, but I'm open to suggestions if people think that there should be exclusively dream world races. One thing I'm thinking of doing as a variant is having people occasionally "become" something else in the dream (usually appropriate to their level and class) such as a 9th level druid finding himself turned into a treant.

I really like the idea of the variant forms (class-based). As for the pc races, consider non-standard fantasy, say, human and elemental (including dream-spirit, perhaps)? I would also include rules for the standard pc races, just in case.

Templates: Characters that enter the setting must chose one of four templates. These include: sleeper, between, awakened, and otherwise.

These all look good to me.

1) All of the skills have new surreal mechanics to them. Craft-skills allow you to craft things out of thin air, the climb skill allows you to climb surfaces you normally shouldn't, and the jump skill allows you to jump farther then you should (with increased DC). Also included would be a "nighmare" section dealing with possible nightmare reactions to failed skill checks.

Probably the best way to approach the situation.

2) Having two new skills: Dreamwalking and Dreamweaving.

Dreamwalking would be a untrained skill that helps to lower the DCs of actions made in the dream. For example: You try to climb a shear surface (normally impossible for most characters, but not so in a dreamscape) the DC is 30, but a successful dreamwalking check versus the local areas "stability" rating (ie how difficult to do surreal things in that environment) allows the character to lower the DC by 5. This is normally a move equivalant action (no AoO), but may be made into a free action by increasing the DC of the check by 5 (note this will probably be restricted to once per round). Failure may result in a "nightmare" episode.

Dreamweaving also is a trained only skill that allows a character to change the dreamscape itself. This is a standard action and draws an attack of opportunity. THe DC is also against an area's stability rating and the area of effect. This skill could produce a door where there was none, change a landscape, drive off a nightmare. Failure may result in a nightmare or backlash.

Dreamweaving is good, but I would make Dreamwalking a feat which did the same thing without the check. I just think that having that extra roll every time you try to use a skill will be overly cumbersome.

Feats are an interesting condundrum and one that I'm still contemplating, but here is what I'm contemplating thus far...

New Dream Feat Mechanic: Characters who do not have a particular feat may make a dreamwalking check to gain temporary access (1 round) to that feat. The DC depends upon how many prerequisites there are for the feat that the character does not have. Note: Failure may lead to a nightmare.

Due to the suggestion above, I would suggest that it be a dreamweaving check, instead (possibly requiring the Dreamwalking feat), but otherwise, a very good idea.

Surreal Feats: These are feats that are quite different from normal feats and could not be effectively done in the real world. I've got a few such feats in mind, but I'd love to hear some suggestions on these. The two notable ones I've come up with are air-walking and flight, two feats that can be done in a dream but not in the "real world" without the aid of magic.

Sounds very good. The trick will be keeping them from outshining magic for a time. Another idea (this would be tricky to implement) would to have a feat that let a character add on a level of any class once a day for one round. The feat could be taken multiple times to enhance the number of times of day it could be used, the number of levels of classes added, or the number of rounds it lasted.

There are quite a few things you can do in a dream that you can't in the "real" world (without the aid of magic). For example in a dream you can weild huge weapons, tree trunks etc...

So they question is how does one come up with an equipment section for a dreamscape?

One thing I'm considering is having characters capable of creating items out of thin air (with some resctrictions) via the Craft (whatever) skills. These would be temporary items subject to special rules.

Good.

Anyway, there would also be the ability to make "permanent" dream items as well at a lower DC, but over a longer period of time. Note: sleepers would not be able to create permanent items only temporary b/c permanent items require in-depth crafting while temporary items are a matter of just "crafting" the image of an item.

Also good.

What are dream specific items that you all would like to see (besides Final Fantasiesque weapons, etc)?

While I realize that it would be wise to have a plentiful assortment of examples in the rules, I still believe that this answer should be left to the players and DM. If you provide rules for free-forming equipment and still making it balanced, you will succeed in keeping the feel of a dream, in my opinion. Of course, I haven't done it for my campaign, but I'd be happy to help you come up with such rules, if you'd like. (I should note, that I might rely extensively on the system for reality shifts incorporated into my setting.)

As mentioned in the templates section combat and damage are handled differently for each template type ranging from harmless to deadly.

Now one thing I've considered instead of just having Charisma add to a dreamer's hp is to have a seperate attribute to keep track of called "spirit points" (based off of Cha) which would be attacked by certain monsters, can be used to aid you in certain actions, etc...

Kind of like how Comeliness was based on Charisma? I think it's a workable Idea, but I kind of like the idea of just having more (all?) creatures attack Charisma (most temporarily, of course). That prevents death of the character after having the attribute reduced to 0 and has the added effect of reducing the characters ability to affect the dream the more the character is hurt. Also, it's less bookwork.

Now I've put a lot of thought into how dream fighting would work (similar to regular fighting, but with much more "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" cinematic style fighting), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

I feel that the Wuxia feel can be captured adequately with the dream-enhanced regular skills like climb and jump (and a few special feats). No need to get over-complicated.

Anyway, I'm excited to see the finished product.

 

[jaldaen]

Drawing a little from Neil Gaiman's wonderful "Sandman" series of graphic novels (which are a must for anyone designing something like this, methinks), I would suggest that a Dreamscape setting include:

Dream Vortices: Characters, who, by the power of their will or ability to dream, have become a sort of magnet within the dream world, able to influence the dreams of others to an amazing extent. Though in The Sandman a dream vortex is a chance occurance, I think that in the d20 system it might work well as a prestige class once fiddled with...perhaps focusing on the abilities to create things and influence people within the dreamworld.

Interesting idea... It's similar to what I'm thinking of doing with the "Otherwise", but slightly more powerful. I might have to work it in somehow ;-)

And, drawing a little from Jeff Noon's science fiction (he's a criminally underappreciated author), I would suggest:

Dodos: Those who cannot enter the dream world at all, making them far stronger in physical reality but locking them forever out of the dreamscape (except, perhaps, by certain magical means--they could be the contacts or grounding forces of a group in the dreaming, keeping them up to date or performing other duties while a group is there).

That's all for now, I'm sure I'll think of some other stuff later. Great campaign idea, and I'm interested to see where it goes.

Laters,
-John-

Also an interesting idea, although Nevermore is meant to be a "capstone" world (similar to Ravenloft), something that you can just slip into any campaign and it might not work well to have a "Dodo" template. But as an NPC template it might work ;-)

-Joseph

 

[jaldaen]

Rune wrote:

"Dreamweaving is good, but I would make Dreamwalking a feat which did the same thing without the check. I just think that having that extra roll every time you try to use a skill will be overly cumbersome."

I'll definately have to think about it, because I can see it either way... but I do have to say that the feat might work better.

As for dream-specific skills, are there any other than dreamweaving that you can think of? I'm drawing a blank right now, but don't what to miss anything obvious.

-Joseph

 

[Rune]

I'll definately have to think about it, because I can see it either way... but I do have to say that the feat might work better.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do think it could work as a skill...but that extra die roll for each skill check is going to be a burden. It works for psionics because psionics aren't used a whole lot by a whole lot of people, but skills are used by everybody, from the lowliest commoner to the most skilled rogue/expert!

As for dream-specific skills, are there any other than dreamweaving that you can think of? I'm drawing a blank right now, but don't what to miss anything obvious.

Because I'm a fan of the simple, my instinct is to say that dreamweaving should cover all of it, only that might make it more powerful than (and out of balance with) other skills. I may well change my mind.

 

[Grim]

Creatures: How about having creatures that are native to the dream plane. Some could do actual damage in the real world, or be able to affect the dream in weird ways, or something. But one should be called a Jabberwock. Alice in wonderland was just cool... Why havent they made an Alice d20?

On another note, how deep is the dream? Like is the "dream" just the place where everyone goes when they dream, or is a collective dream that people go to mostly accidentally when they dream to hard. If you read the Wheel of Time series, The Dream plane mirrors our own, but can only be reached if you have extensive training, or are a fluke. Normal people sometimes enter accidentally, but then get really tripped out and leave.

Just a thought...