Handling the Feint in a Game

[Water Bob]

Question: Let's say a 1st level NPC Fighter is fighting a 1st level PC Fighter, and the NPC uses the Feint. Instead of an attack, the NPC Fighter uses his Standard Action to feint (Bluff roll), and if successful, on his next attack, the NPC gets to attack the PC with the Feint benefits (PC doesn't get to use DEX bonus to improve AC).


This maneuver normally takes two rounds to complete (unless the Improved Feint Feat is used, or in the case of higher level Fighters with multiple attacks): Round one, NPC makes feint. If successful, the benefits of the feint are used on the NPC's attack the following round.


Do you tell the player about the feint? Or, do you describe it as a typical attack?










Tell the Player


If the PC is told, then the Feint check can be made one round (Bluff check vs. modified Sense Motive check), and if successful, then the NPC's attack is made on the following round. But, can't the PC, knowing that he is victim of a successful feint, do something like use the Fighting Defensively rule to counteract the penalty of the Feint?






Don't Tell the Player


If the PC isn't told, then the round the feint is made, the Ref describes a missed attack--just as if the NPC failed to hit. Then, on the following round, the Bluff vs Sense Motive is made, and if successful, the NPC's attack is made where the PC cannot benefit from DEX bonus.






How have you best played this in your games?

 

[delericho]

Question: Let's say a 1st level NPC Fighter is fighting a 1st level PC Fighter, and the NPC uses the Feint. Instead of an attack, the NPC Fighter uses his Standard Action to feint (Bluff roll), and if successful, on his next attack, the NPC gets to attack the PC with the Feint benefits (PC doesn't get to use DEX bonus to improve AC).

This maneuver normally takes two rounds to complete (unless the Improved Feint Feat is used, or in the case of higher level Fighters with multiple attacks)

Nitpick: your last exception is incorrect. Because Feint is a standard action, it doesn't matter that higher-level Fighters get multiple attacks - in order to use those attacks they need to use the Full Attack full-round action, which they don't have available.

Do you tell the player about the feint? Or, do you describe it as a typical attack?

Describe it as a typical attack (and I'll roll the Sense Motive check for the PC, too). For the very reason you give - if told about the feint, it's very likely that the player will have his character move away, or go full defensive, or otherwise take action to negate the feint. Better, in this instance, and IMO, to not tell the player until later. (But be sure to play fair with this one - no retrospectively turning a missed attack into a feint!)

 

[Starfox]

I'd tell the player. If he wants to run away, the attack of opportunity gets the benefit instead on having to wait until the next round. If he fights defensively, that has its own costs.

 

[Water Bob]

Nitpick: your last exception is incorrect. Because Feint is a standard action, it doesn't matter that higher-level Fighters get multiple attacks - in order to use those attacks they need to use the Full Attack full-round action, which they don't have available.

Interesting. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Vegepygmy]

If the PC is told, then the Feint check can be made one round (Bluff check vs. modified Sense Motive check), and if successful, then the NPC's attack is made on the following round. But, can't the PC, knowing that he is victim of a successful feint, do something like use the Fighting Defensively rule to counteract the penalty of the Feint?

I would not tell the player, because there are actions he could take to nullify the feint...but Fighting Defensively isn't one of them.

Fighting Defensively gives you a dodge bonus to your AC. Feinting denies you your Dexterity bonus to AC...and dodge bonuses are lost whenever you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC, so Fighting Defensively in anticipation of a feint wouldn't help you at all.

 

[Glimbur]

I would tell them about the feint because it seems like their character should know they just fell for a feint. Walking away from someone you are fighting is always (theoretically) an option, leaving a tricky fighter versus leaving someone who just hit you shouldn't be any different. As has been mentioned, there are problems with leaving melee.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I would tell them about the feint because it seems like their character should know they just fell for a feint.

???

If you know you just fell for a feint...then you didn't fall for the feint.

 

[Glimbur]

You think you see an opening, so you swing but they were expecting it so they slide your weapon away leaving you exposed. You think they're winding up for a big overhead attack, so you block high but then they slide in a low quick thrust. There's a mistake in their footwork, except there isn't. There is a point between falling for the feint and where they follow up and hit you. It's not much, and this is where turn-based combat gets weird, but it seems reasonable to me that you would realize you made a mistake.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I don't tell the PC about it, unless the feint -fails-.

 

[Oryan77]

You think you see an opening, so you swing but they were expecting it so they slide your weapon away leaving you exposed. You think they're winding up for a big overhead attack, so you block high but then they slide in a low quick thrust. There's a mistake in their footwork, except there isn't. There is a point between falling for the feint and where they follow up and hit you. It's not much, and this is where turn-based combat gets weird, but it seems reasonable to me that you would realize you made a mistake.

You may be forgetting that in order to feint, you must make a Bluff check vs their Sense Motive check. If the Sense Motive check fails, they should not be aware of their mistake in your example. That's what the check is for. Otherwise, there is no reason to roll a Bluff vs Sense Motive. In your example, no matter what, the target of the feint is aware of the feint maneuver.

The feint is a trick used to throw your target off balance. The easiest way to express this in combat is by saying things along the line of, "The NPC attacks, but barely misses you."

The DM secretively rolls the Bluff vs Sense Motive. PCs should never roll a Sense Motive vs an NPC Bluff unless the player requests to roll a Sense Motive if he thinks an NPC is bluffing.

If the Bluff fails, the DM immediately tells the player of the failed attempt at feinting and the NPC basically lost his action that round and the PC is not denied his Dex bonus the following round. If the Bluff wins, then play out the PCs initiative like normal. On the following round, the NPC attacks the PC and ignores the PCs Dex bonus.

There really shouldn't be any other way of running a feint action in combat that I can think of. Otherwise, you are disregarding the whole point of a person wasting a round in order to trick his enemy and benefit from it the following round.