Stacking Uncanny Dodge

[Altamont Ravenard]

Levels of Classes that grand uncanny dodge stack, to determine what kind of Uncanny Dodge you get (3.0).

A rogue gets Uncanny Dodge (can't be flanked) at level 6. A barbarian gets the same, at level 5.

Say I have a multiclassed Rogue/Barbarian. Do I automatically get Uncanny dodge (can't be flanked) at level 5, or does it depend on how many levels I have in each class, on what class I started with, etc?

Thanks in advance.

AR

 

[Kemrain]

AFAIK, the number of classes doesn't matter, it's the number of times you have Uncanny dodge. So If your have it from barbarian and rogue levels, you get 'improved' uncanny dodge, and can't be flanked.

Am I wrong?

-Kemrain the Uncanny

 

[sithramir]

AFAIK, the number of classes doesn't matter, it's the number of times you have Uncanny dodge. So If your have it from barbarian and rogue levels, you get 'improved' uncanny dodge, and can't be flanked.

Am I wrong?

-Kemrain the Uncanny

Correct. You'd have to be a lvl 5 barbarian/lvl 6 rogue which is a lvl 11 character assuming those are the right levels you get the bonus's at. The level of the character is irrelevant you look at the class levels independantly.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Correct. You'd have to be a lvl 5 barbarian/lvl 6 rogue which is a lvl 11 character assuming those are the right levels you get the bonus's at.

That's not what he means.

He's suggesting that a Rog3 (Uncanny Dodge, Dex bonus to AC) in conjunction with Brb2 (Uncanny Dodge, Dex bonus to AC) is Uncanny Dodge twice, so they get the second level of Uncanny Dodge.

That's not how it works in 3E.

"Rage, Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack & Similar Class Features
Some Class Features improve at higher levels. When a character gains a Class Feature from two or more classes that behaves in this manner, treat the Class Feature as though the class levels of the classes including that Class Feature of the character were combined to determine how effective the class feature is."

So, as it happens, a Rog3/Brb2 does gain Uncanny Dodge (can't be flanked), but it's not because he has Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC) twice; it's because he adds the levels from the two classes that he has the class features from. 3 + 2 = 5... and even though a Rogue doesn't receive Uncanny Dodge (can't be flanked) until level 6, a Barbarian receives it at level 5.

-Hyp.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I don't understand what you're saying.

From the DMG (Assassin):

"If the assassin has another class that grants the uncanny dodge ability, add together all the class levels of the classes that grant the ability and determine the character's uncanny dodge ability on that basis"

So a rogue x / barbarian y has the Uncanny dodge ability of a (x+y)th level character. The question is WHICH character.

AR

 

[Silveras]

Correct. You'd have to be a lvl 5 barbarian/lvl 6 rogue which is a lvl 11 character assuming those are the right levels you get the bonus's at. The level of the character is irrelevant you look at the class levels independantly.

That's exactly wrong.

3.0 PH, p56, Multi-Classed Characters, Class Featrures
"In the special case of uncanny dodge, both experienced barbarians and experienced rogues have the same ability. A barbarian/ rogue can treat her barbarian levels as rogue levels (or vice versa) to determine how effective her uncanny dodge is."

Meaning, a Barbarian 4/Rogue 1 can consider herself a "Barbarian 5" for Uncanny Dodge purposes, or a "Rogue 5" if that was better. A Barbarian 1/Rogue 4 can also consider herself a "Barbarian 5" for the same purpose.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So a rogue x / barbarian y has the Uncanny dodge ability of a (x+y)th level character. The question is WHICH character.

Pick whichever one works best. For purposes of calculating the effectiveness of Uncanny Dodge, he can consider himself either a (x+y)th level Barbarian, or a (x+y)th level Rogue.

Barbarian works best, in this case, since he gets each UD progression one level before the Rogue.

-Hyp.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Cool, thanks. Just wanted to be sure.

AR

 

[Hypersmurf]

Meaning, a Barbarian 4/Rogue 1 can consider herself a "Barbarian 5" for Uncanny Dodge purposes, or a "Rogue 5" if that was better. A Barbarian 1/Rogue 4 can also consider herself a "Barbarian 5" for the same purpose.

I'm away from my PHB, so I'm not sure if it's phrased the same way. The SRD quote (a few posts up), though, states: "When a character gains a Class Feature from two or more classes that behaves in this manner..."

A Brb1 has not actually gained the UD class feature; nor has a Rog2. A multiclassed Barbarian/Rogue with at least two levels of Brb and at least three levels of Rog has gained the Class Feature from two or more classes, so his levels can stack. A Brb1/Rog4, however, has only gained the Class Feature from one class. Whether he can actually stack his levels in this case is, I think, debatable.

As the paragraph you quoted notes, it's an experienced barbarian and an experienced rogue who get Uncanny Dodge...

-Hyp.

 

[Silveras]

I'm away from my PHB, so I'm not sure if it's phrased the same way. The SRD quote (a few posts up), though, states: "When a character gains a Class Feature from two or more classes that behaves in this manner..."

A Brb1 has not actually gained the UD class feature; nor has a Rog2. A multiclassed Barbarian/Rogue with at least two levels of Brb and at least three levels of Rog has gained the Class Feature from two or more classes, so his levels can stack. A Brb1/Rog4, however, has only gained the Class Feature from one class. Whether he can actually stack his levels in this case is, I think, debatable.

As the paragraph you quoted notes, it's an experienced barbarian and an experienced rogue who get Uncanny Dodge...

-Hyp.

True enough.

Class Features: The character gets all class features of all classes, but must also suffer the consequences of all special restrictions of all classes. (Exception: A character who acquires the barbarian class does not become illiterate.) Some class features don't work well with skills or class features of other classes. For example, although rogues are proficient with light armor, a rogue/wizard still suffers arcane spell failure chances if wearing armor.
In the special case of turning undead ....
In the special case of uncanny dodge ...

The special case for turning undead specifically mentions adjusting the stacked turning ability for the Paladin's "as a Cleric 2 levels lower" by subtracting 2 levels from the Paladin to determine the equivalent overall level. Note that the paragraph on uncanny dodge has no such language.

The language in the turning undead section can be used to support a more restrictive approach to uncanny dodge, especially since it also refers to "experienced Paladins". However, the lack of similarly explicit language in the uncanny dodge entry leads me to think it works as I described. Naturally, this would not be the first (or only) occasion when the designers' intentions were omitted or miscommunicated.