Druid Shield Bash

[whatisitgoodfor]

Ok, if a Druid makes a shield bash, do they lose thier spellcasting ability for 24 hours?

I started to wonder about this when I noticed that Vadania carries a spiked large wooden shield.

Also, do their druidic oaths apply to Grappling and natural weapon attacks?

BTW, what were they thinking with that list of allowed weapons. It looks like "farm" weapons, minus the flail and plus the scimitar.

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Finally, and I realize this question should be in house rules, not rules, do you people think it would be fair to allow a Druid to purchase Hide armor made from some mystical creature that basically serves the same purpose as Mithril does for metal armor?

 

[Pielorinho]

BTW, what were they thinking with that list of allowed weapons. It looks like "farm" weapons, minus the flail and plus the scimitar.

I'm pretty sure what they were thinking is, "Whoah! Nothing beats Oregon bud! Must...not...exhale...."

Daniel

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Come on, somebody has to know the answer to this.

Please. I'll even go so far as to ask Caliban.

 

[Urbanmech]

#1 No druids don't loose their spells for 24 hours if they use a shield bash (unless they are shield bashing with a metal shield) because they are allowed to use wooden or hide shields. There is no weapon proficiency: shield, if there were and it wasn't on their list then maybe it would trigger a loss of spells.

#2 The druid oath doesn't limit your types of combat actions just the weapons and equipment you can use. So a druid can punch/grapple/claw etc people without fear of loosing their abilities.

#3 The druid weapon selection has always been there, and I guess it tried to focus on "simple" woodland weapons and curved bladed weapons. Gary just tried to give the enigmatic Druids of the real life some fantasy flavor.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Druid weapon restrictions = dumb

It's generally accepted that the druidic weapon restrictions are anachronistic, nonsensical, and non fun. Few strictly enforce those rules. After all, as many have pointed out, under the rules a druid would lose all his powers if he chucked a rock at somebody.

But, to answer your question: no, a shield bash with a spiked shield would not cause a loss of powers because a shield bash with a spiked shield does not require the use of a forbidden weapon. A large shield with spikes is still a large shield, and druids are trained in the use of large shields. There is no entry for "Spiked Shield" on the weapons list. There is no "exotic weapon proficiency: shield spikes". A shield, whether it has spikes or not, is classified as a "shield", not a "weapon".

Grappling does not use forbidden weapons (or any weapons), so it would not cause a loss of powers.

Unarmed Attack is on the general weapons list and not on the druid-allowed weapons list. So technically you're in trouble. But druids aren't explicitly penalized for using natural attacks when wildshaped, so I think it can be assumed that they shouldn't be penalized for using natural attacks while in human form.

As for the hide issue: of course it's fair to allow mystical hide armor. Rhino hide is pretty cool and in WotC's rule books. And I think I recall reading something official about dragon hide armor (dragon scale armor).

But what about, say, Gorgon armor? Or armor made from other metal-skinned creatures? Isn't that metal armor and thus forbidden? Hmmm... I think the intent of the Hide & Leather Only restriction was that worked armors made of smelted metals was forbidden. A luddite, anti-tech issue.

So, I'd restrict the allowable special Hide armors to the hides of creatures that would be considered a natural part of your campaign world. In the typical campaign world, that would probably include animals, beasts, and dragons, but exclude aberations, undead, and outsiders.

 

[Acmite]

No core class has a "shield weapon" proficiency, so one can assume that proficiency in shield grants proficiency in all uses of that shield.

So, Vadania could do a shield bash at no penalty with a shield she is proficient in, and not lose her abilities.

If Vadania adds wooden spikes to said shield, she takes a -4 penalty to her attacks (martial weapon she is not proficient in) and loses all abilities for 24 hours. Think of it like this: druids can use clubs (log), but not great clubs (big, spikey log)

If a rogue tries to do a shield bash with a shield they are proficient in, they do so at no penalty. If the shield is spiked, unless they have Martial WP: Shield spikes, they attack at -4.

Exception: If a druid casts "spikes" or "brambles" from DotF, they can shield bash with what is essentially a spiked shield, for more damage than a normal spiked bash, and not lose their abilities, and do so with no penalties to attack. Sweet deal. My next druid character will have this!

 

[Acmite]

There is no entry for "Spiked Shield" on the weapons list. There is no "exotic weapon proficiency: shield spikes". A shield, whether it has spikes or not, is classified as a "shield", not a "weapon".

Actually, Zaruthustran, that's incorrect.

PHB (1st printing) p. 106, Shield Spikes entry: "When added to your shield, these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon that deals.......

Shield is not a weapon, but can be used as such.

Shield spikes are martial weapons, and can only be used as such.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, I'd restrict the allowable special Hide armors to the hides of creatures that would be considered a natural part of your campaign world. In the typical campaign world, that would probably include animals, beasts, and dragons, but exclude aberations, undead, and outsiders.

Ooh... +2 Ghost Touch Spectre-Hide Armor.

I like that idea.

-Hyp.

 

[Michael Tree]

Ok, if a Druid makes a shield bash, do they lose thier spellcasting ability for 24 hours?

Technically, yes with a spiked shield, no with a plain shield.

However, according to the rules druids also lose their powers if they throw a rock at someone, so take the rules with a little bit of salt. Most people agree that the Druid weapon rule is the stupidest thing in 3E, and summarily ignore it.

 

[DrSpunj]

Actually...

No core class has a "shield weapon" proficiency, so one can assume that proficiency in shield grants proficiency in all uses of that shield.

So, Vadania could do a shield bash at no penalty with a shield she is proficient in, and not lose her abilities.

I just reread the Shield Bash entry of my first printing PHB on pg. 106.
"Used this way, the shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon."

This would imply to me that any character doing a shield bash must be proficient with martial weapons or suffer a -4 non-proficiency penalty, Druids included. The fact that many classes are proficient in Shields seems to be a defensive proficiency, not an offensive one.

Regardless, I certainly wouldn't rule that Vadania or any other Druid would lose their abilities for using a Wooden shield in this way.

Thanks.