So is Chaosium Stupid?

JoeGKushner · Apr 1, 2002

I know that subject line sounds harsh but I'm looking at them from a fan of the Eternal Champion series and the d20 series.

1. They have a lot of old adventurers and material for the BRP system that could've been fairly easily modified for use in d20.

2. Their first module to support the Dragonlords of Melinbone came out almost a year after the core book.

3. It's a low level module.

There is so much potential in the whole Eternal Champion theme and character concept, not to mention setting, that I wish White Wolf had it. You know that we'd already have a book on Erekose, Companions, The Sword, Elric, Hawkmoon, Kane and others in the Eternal Champion library.

Crothian · Apr 1, 2002

Well, what else have they been doing in all this time? I don't follow the company so I don't know what products and product lines they have going.

Kaptain_Kantrip · Apr 1, 2002

Their support for d20 Dragonlords was abysmal. Then again, Dragonlords wasn't that hot, either!

Ranger REG · Apr 1, 2002

I can only speculate that ... I believe Chaosium's approach to DLoM is to expose D&D/d20 gamers to their products and hope they would instead pick up Stormbringer with the BRP system. I hope that once they realize this an error on their part, they may do a revised or new edition of DLoM.

Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about Chaosium's commitment to support Call of Cthulhu d20 RPG by Wizards.

Kaptain_Kantrip · Apr 1, 2002

If Slaves of Fate is at all representative of Chaosium's commitment to support of d20 Chaosium created or licensed products, then you can forget about it. There will be extremely limited (and belated) support showing a complete lack of knowledge of how the d20 rules system operates (as was shown in Dragonlords).

Thinking that d20 fans will switch to Chaosium's d100 system is mind-bogglingly poor thinking on their part. d20 fans want d20 games. Most don't want to learn complicated other systems like Chaosium's, which I've never understood, or "bucket o' dice" d6 systems like Shadowrun or Vampire.

Horacio · Apr 1, 2002

Hey, Kap_Kantrip, are you sure you havent forgotten your daily pills?

Seriously, I like Chaosium d100 and old West End d6 system. I don't think beign a d20 fan forbids using d100 or d6, and I'm not in the Stone Age, I think

But yes, Chaosium support of their d20 Elric was stupid. I hope they don't do that for d20 CoC.

slacker from shaggai · Apr 1, 2002

They already have Pulp Cthulhu planned! It's coming out this summer, even. They'll probably dual-stat their adventure modules, too. I think they pretty much admitted that DLoM was meant to make money to reprint Elric!, but they seem to be more committed to CoC D20.

Cthulhu · Apr 1, 2002

Dragon Lords of Melnibone was so poorly conceived and executed that reading it made me hurl a squamous blast in disgust.

I was really hoping for a much better conversion. The world of Moorcock's Elric novels and stories deserves better. I have read good things about the Slaves of Fate adventure, however, although I admit that I haven't picked it up yet.

I, too, hope that the D20 Call of Cthulhu game is well supported by Chaosium. Considering the problems they have keeping to a release schedule, I have serious doubts that they will be able to release Pulp Cthulhu this summer. I expect it will be 2003 before I hold that book in my talons.

EDIT: Just to make clear, I don't think Chaosium is stupid. They've done wonderful books in the past, and they're (obviously) one of my favorite game companies. They just haven't done very well with d20 yet.

trancejeremy · Apr 1, 2002

Well, yes and no. They're not stupid exactly, just really really stuck up.

They feel that the BRP is the greatest gaming system ever devised. They feel that D&D is the worst gaming system ever devised (never mind that BRP and d20 are cousins).

So, I think making d20 products leaves a great distaste in their mouths. They view d20 only as a vehicle to sell their BRP games (they've said as much).

Secondly, Chaosium seems to have gone through a philsophical change over the years. I'm lucky enough to have the GW Hardcover of the original Stormbringer rules.

Besides the rules, it's got about a dozen adventures in it. All of these are largely dungeon crawls. Nice dungeon crawls, for the most part. Exploring ruins, investigating myserious buildings, etc.
Pretty much D&D style stuff. (A lot of it also really really evil.)

But later, in the Elric! rulebook, they rant about how dungeon adventures are evil, and beneath them, and so and such. (This is also in DLOM, I believe).

Of course, never mind that a lot of the Elric novels involve dungeon crawls (and D&D style adventures).

So, I think their owning the Moorcock license is now pretty misguided. They just don't like that sort of material anymore.

Still, I think their attitude is pretty stupid. As was not dual statting Slaves of Fates (though even that wouldn't save it)

BadMojo · Apr 2, 2002

Ranger REG said:
Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about Chaosium's commitment to support Call of Cthulhu d20 RPG by Wizards.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Chaosium fully support BRP AND d20. However, if Chaosium stops supporting d20 then I will simply convert all of the great old BRP stuff. Chaosium has produced so much quality stuff for CoC, that there should be enough material out there to keep any CoC fan (d20 or BRP) busy for quite a long time.