T&B: Is Energy Substitution (Sonic) unbalanced?

[bret]

T&B has the Energy Substitution feat which allows you to pick an energy type. You can now use this on a spell that causes energy damage, substituting in the feat's energy type.

Example: Cast your Cone of Cold with Energy Substitution: Sonic and it does 1d6/level Sonic damage instead of Cold damage.

The feat doesn't modify the spell level.

Compare that with the Shout spell (also 4th level) that only does 2d6 sonic damage and causes deafness. Against a very limited number of creatures (crystaline creatures, brittle or crystaline objects) it would do a full 1d6/level, but that is much more of a special case.

Looking through the Monster Manual, we could not find a creature Immune to Sonic attacks. There are plenty of creatures immune to the other energy types, but we couldn't find an example immune to sonic damage.


In play, is this choice of feats unbalanced? The feat seems fine for the other energy types, it is just sonic that is suspect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In play, is this choice of feats unbalanced? The feat seems fine for the other energy types, it is just sonic that is suspect.

While this doesn't change the truth of what you're saying, I would point out one disadvantage of using the Sonic energy...

When you let off a Cone of Cold, enemies a few rooms away might hear it.

When you let off a Cone of Cacophony, people a few levels away are going to hear it.

-Hyp.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I would certainly hope that Cone of Sound is better than Shout, considering that it takes a feat (and a full-round action for a sorcerer).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

First, the nit-pick: Shout is 4th-level, but Cone of Cold is 5th-level. So one big reason it's better, energy-substitution or no energy-substitution, is because it's a level higher than its competition.

But regarding your point, I had this same difficulty in a thread a while back discussing energy weapons. The DMG lists Frost, Shocking, and Flame weapons, but Sonic and Acid weapons are conspicuously absent. (Yes, I know they're in Faerun, but I don't exactly quote the FRCS when discussing balance. )

My argument: Sonic weapons (or here, spells,) are more powerful, because they face few or no resistances.

The counter-argument: Though this is true, it is balanced by the fact that, along with resistant creatures, cold, fire, and electricity energy types benefit from creatures that are particularly vulnerable to them, while there are few (if any) creatures especially vulnerable to sonic damage. Also, you must consider certain regenerating creatures, which aren't affected by sonic energy at all, but only fire and acid. When all this is taken into account, they're relatively equal.

So by the counter-argument, substituting the Shout spell into a Wave of Cold should be on average just as useful as substituting the Cone of Cold into a Cone of Cacaphony, because there will be times when cold is preferable to sonic.

Whether you agree with the reasoning is up to you, of course.

Btw, there are sounds that cannot be heard. My layman's brain is telling me, in fact, that most sounds that cause severe damage are outside of the range of human hearing. While this may or may not be true, I wouldn't say the Cone of Cacaphony must necessarily alert the entire dungeon to the party's presence...

 

[Demogorge]

I thought Sonic damage was the way to go until we fought some trolls...

If we're talking Immunities, there are almost no monsters with an immunity to Sonic energy. But there are a few monsters (like trolls) which don't take normal damage from sonic energy. This is about as good as immunity in my book, but from a quick flip through the monstrous manual it's not evident.

As for Shout vs. Cone of Cacophony, Shout deafens which can be more useful than just doing damage. Defeaning a spellcaster isn't just good for casting spells, it moves his initiative down. Shout isn't a straight damage spell, there are plenty of other spells for that.

Also Sonic energy is uniquely fought by a bard's countersong. A bard with full ranks in perform and a simple +10 to Perform magic item (no moderate level bard should leave home without it) will have him and ALL his allies taking half-damage from your Cone of Cacophony (no damage with Evasion). Sure some dextrous Rogues can do that anyway, but a whole party of 7th level opponents with an effective Reflex save of 20? Only against Sonic damage spells.

So I would say ES(sonic) is not unbalanced. In fact it's a good feat to take because of the monsters that are not immune to it. But all things considered Sonic damage is not any more powerful than any other energy type, so a feat that converts your energy to that type is not going to be unbalancing.

 

[green slime]

Wouldn't being deaf cause some immunity to the damage from the sonically enhanced spells?

A creature incapable of hearing sound would be similarly protected as a blind creature facing a colour spray, that is to say not at all.

Sound burst causes no stun to deafened creatures.

At the very least some sort of reduced damage, or increased save bonus should be allowed...

 

[sotmh]

I suppose you could house rule it, Greenslime, but according to the rules for Energy Substitution presented in T&B, the spell effects are unchanged except for the energy type. Thus, deafness would not protect against a Sonic Ball, but would prevent the creature from being stunned by a Cold Burst. It's a little weird, but it's magic, so expect weird things to happen.

sotmh

[edit: fixed tags]

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I do not think that the damage from a sonic attack comes from hearing it...

 

[Gez]

I havn't find any regenerating creature that takes normal damage from sonic attacks. However, Fire and Acid are popular weaknesses. Energy Substitution allows you to bypass some strengthes, but over-using it will show you that it has its weaknesses too.

 

[Gez]

Wouldn't being deaf cause some immunity to the damage from the sonically enhanced spells?

A creature incapable of hearing sound would be similarly protected as a blind creature facing a colour spray, that is to say not at all.

Sound burst causes no stun to deafened creatures.

At the very least some sort of reduced damage, or increased save bonus should be allowed...

No. Damage from sonic attack don't comes from hearing it (the only effects of sonic attack that affects specifically hearing creatures are stun and deafen). It is the vibrations that causes the damage. A glass is deaf (even if walls have ears ), but still can be shattered by sounds.

Similarly, I don't think a blind vampire would be immune to sunlight. Or, to put it in another way, you can be sunburned even if you close your eyes.

Color spray is not an attack that deals damage thanks to intense light (that would be searing light or a laser beam), but a spell that creates hypnotic lights. It's not damage. You're immune to it if you're blind because the media used (visual display) can't affect your senses, and this spell requires to affect the senses of its target. It's similar to say, command (a language-dependant spell) but not to shatter or sound ball.