[XPH]: Your take on Energy Missile augmentation

[Kyamsil]

Am I the only one who feels this power's augmentation is way overpowered for its level?

The way it is written it implies that you spend 1 power point to add 1d6 of extra damage and boost save DC by the same amount. As it is a level 2 power it costs a base of 3 power points and deals 3d6 of a selected energy type to up to 5 separate targets, with a save for half damage.

It's like magic missile in that it doesn't need an attack roll and they aren't a ray or ranged touch power either.

Now, suppose a level 10 manifester with a +5 (18 base + 2 level boosts) Intelligence:

The saving throw for this power is 10+2(level)+5(Int)=17 at the base cost. So 5 targets get 3d6 of damage with save for half at a reasonable saving throw DC.

Now boost it to the maximum for a level 10 manifester (no overchannel or things like that, just using standard augmentation.):

The saving throw for this power becomes 10+2(level)+5(Int)+7(augmentation)=24. So now it deals 10d6 save for half to 5 targets with save DC 24.

If instead of 10th level, it was a 20th level manifester, who most likely would have items boosting intelligence even more to around +10 (that's without going overboard on int boosting, as it can be a lot higher.)

A maximum augmentation DC for this caster would be:
Saving throw of 10+2(level)+10(Int)+17(augmentation)=39! and it deals 20d6 with save for half damage to 5 targets.

Add to him the Overchannel and Talented psionic feats and he can overchannel it for 23d6 and save DC=42 without dealing damage to himself because it is a low level power.

Alternatively you can boost the damage and save DC a bit less and have some nice metamagic feat added to the mix to deal more damage. 18d6+50%and save DC 37 for empowered. Make it deal cold damage and you get +1 to each dice and the save becomes Fortitude instead of Reflex (so you can mess with the Improved Evasion guys). Selecting 5 targets to deal them an average of 121 points of cold damage, Fort save DC 37 for half: take out all spellcasters and rogue characters of a party. Repeat next round (with reflex save and electricity for example) and you will severely damage the party fighters.

All in all, I think this power is way overpowered for level 2 as written, and can easily lead to a TPK situation. What's your oppinion?

 

[Kalendraf]

I ran the Dark Sun adventure "Last Stand at Outpost 3" as a one-shot adventure, and one of the characters was a Psion w/ Energy Missile. He more or less singlehandedly eliminated all the foes at one point. He used nearly his entire power point reserve to do it, but still, he was really mopping up bigtime.

In this case, it was just a 3rd level Psion w/ high Intelligence who did have the Overchannel and Talented feats. Even at low levels, the power seems unbalancing. At the higher levels, it just gets worse. So I agree that it seems too powerful.

 

[Michael Tree]

I quite agree, as do many others online. There is somewhat of a consensus that the augmentation to DC should be +1/2pp, like virtually all other powers whose DCs augment.

 

[Yair]

Like Michael said, there is a consensus that the powers that provide +1 DC/pp should provide +1 DC/2pp instead.
It is still a great power. But not too out of line, I think.

 

[Scion]

There have been many comparisons with it and spells actually, most point to the energy missile being just fine as is actually.

Effectively it is a very small area, targeting power that is a kineticist only power. It has one main benefit, it has a boost to the dc.

At its highest equivalent point (ninth level) its save dc is 26+ability mod vs 19+ability mod.

By this time though the power has an incredibly small area it effects, it still targets, it only does energy damage, and the amount of damage it does to any one target is generally equal to or less than damage from other spells of this level (such as meteor swarm).

There are many spells which simply have 'no' save that it compares well with as well. This one usually hits an extra target, and the others disallow a save.

So, for this power which is only on the kineticist list (who are supposed to be the blasters) they get a power that is good for fairly surgical strikes in a very small area, and the benefit it gets is some extra points of dc (+7 in the above).

But, it does still allow a save, it is only energy damage, and it is over an incredibly small area. Hitting more than one useful target with it is not incredibly easy, more than 2 is effectively impossible most of the time.

I have gone through comparions before useing polar ray (an incredibly, horribly weak 8th level spell.. I havent even seen anyone say the opposite) and horrid wilting. The comparisons come out to be very interesting, generally pointing to tradeoffs of useing one or the other.

Sounds decently balanced to me

The main problem is getting rid of being able to target attended objects, in my game I simply dissallowed the targeting of attended objects and everything is good to go.

Edit: just to say it again though, the only real benefit this power even 'has' is its extra dc. Take that away and you might as well put it on the general list unless it is given something else to make up for it.

 

[Kyamsil]

Another one to watch closely would have to be Energy Push.

While it does less damage and it needs the target to fail a strength check to have the capability of dealing more damage, if coupled with some strength sapping powers/spells from an ally or multiclass. Say for example, you multiclass as Wiz1 (with the same ability that you need to boost to affect your powers) you can use a wand of Ray of Enfeeblement time and time again. Cast Ray of Enfeeblement on fighter-type. Manifest Energy Push to have him tumbling around (preferablly near a cliff or something like that... just plain evil).

Another tactic that an npc manifester used to dismay of one of the PCs of my campaign, and that made me think that the power is really broken is the "Control Body"/Solicit Psicrystal combo. That effectively made the party have their swashbuckling duelist not only neutralized as a party member, but actually as an enemy (and by the way, with the Int modifier of the psion she actually was fighing better ). This two power combination can be really powerful. Consider the possibility of the party rogue being controlled and then using the psion that controlled him to flank a party member that is fighting with him: flanking-sneak attack to boot. Not nice...

Personally, I think there are some powers in the XPH that are open to abuse, a lot more than spells in other sources.

 

[Kyamsil]

But, it does still allow a save, it is only energy damage, and it is over an incredibly small area. Hitting more than one useful target with it is not incredibly easy, more than 2 is effectively impossible most of the time.

Yes, it allows a save. But it is not that hard to have more than 2 targets on a typical dungeon encounter. Just use it when the room is not too wide. Or use it as the typical 5' step back and blast away all the people that were fighting you on melee.

The fact it deals energy damage only is debatable. You can cast it as a sonic power. Even if that means -1 to each dice of damage, when coupled with Empower Power and things like Overchannel/Talented it still deals considerable damage. And most targets won't have resistance to sonic.

 

[Scion]

But they might have silence. Or, if sonic damage is used often because things arent generally resistant, then maybe energy resistance (pretty cheap stuff at these levels) or energy immunity (nice spell).

If you drop it to silence then it is doing d6-1, even with overchannel (ouch, spending lots of pp and taking damage) it does 'way' less damage than other spells of the same effective level.

Two 'useful' targets is difficult. Killing a few grunts at a time isnt a big deal, especially when it takes a bunch of pp to 'maybe' do it.

Sonic still is an energy type, it is useful against objects, but not so much against normal targets.

If you are saying that hitting yourself for something like 5d8 damage in order to really hurt someone (maybe) is overpowered then we are going to keep talking past one another As at that point you are hitting yourself, without save, for about half of the damage you could possibly do to them.

 

[James McMurray]

Bah, just be Talented and refuse to take any overchannel damage.

To me one of the scarier aspects of the power is the ability to target gear. With that, you are often gauranteed to have five targets so long as you don't mind destroying possibly useful loot.

 

[Scion]

That is why I changed the power to be unable to target attended objects.. it is just too powerful then. without it being able to do that it is just fine

But if you are taking talented and overchannel then you are also expending focus. That is a pretty big investment, and probably not really worth it (it would be better to simply have empower)