[Dreamscarred Press] An exclusive ENworld preview - The Mentalist lvls 1-3

[Jack99]

As some of you might know, I review 4e products in my blog here on ENworld and they are also available in Level Up. Through the reviews, I have had the opportunity to chat with quite a few of our 4e publishers and somewhere along the lines, I got involved in several projects, until one day, I summoned the courage to pitch an idea to a publisher. Would you believe that I got a green light on my first pitch? The Mentalist was that pitch, although he was called the Psionicist at that point Old habits die hard I guess.

That's why it is my pleasure to announce that soon, or rather, very soon, the very nice folks of Dreamscarred Press will be releasing the Mentalist, their new Phrenic controller. 1 class, 80+ powers, 3 paragon paths, 36 feats, a new implement and quite a few magic items will be in the PDF that will be released - soon . Since I wrote it, I am rather proud of how it turned out, but mostly I am curious of course, curious of what you guys will think of it. Considering all the time I spend here, I found it only appropriate to share my debut with you guys, and give you a chance to find out if maybe the Mentalist is just what you need for your campaign (*Jedi Mind Trick* - it is) before it is released - soon - to the general public.

Anyway, I hope you will download the preview (attached to this post), check it out, and let me know what you think of it. Good or bad. Because in the end, I am just a fan like you, and even if only 1 person loves the Mentalist, I want it to be as good as possible. And as we all know, greatness is achieved through constructive feedback

Cheers

[Bacris]

I'd like to say, Chris put in a ton of work on this, and was infinitely patient with my slowness in layout / formatting. I'm looking forward to getting this out for folks to try.

[Siberys]

I'm trying to figure out what the focus surges and psi focus are for. Are they like a mix between psionic focus from 3.x and the resource-management aspect of healing surges? There's very little description on that front. (EDIT: I get it now. You meditate, spending a focus surge to recharge your psi focus, letting you use the augment on another power. I think it could be better explained, tho.)

Also, the Psi Focus recharge mechanic is weird, in that it requires tracking how you used it. I would avoid doing that myself. A single recharge mechanic would be better, methinks.

[Jack99]

Originally Posted by Siberys

Also, the Psi Focus recharge mechanic is weird, in that it requires tracking how you used it. I would avoid doing that myself. A single recharge mechanic would be better, methinks.

Fair enough. The recharge mechanic is basically a simulation of the augmentation of powers in earlier editions. You could do it with most powers, but not all or you would run out of PP's. The first version was just a straight recharge roll, but then I figured that if there was no difference between recharging after a daily and after an at-will, and people would always augment their daily when it was possible.

If you like the rest of the Mentalist and choose to ever play it, please let me know how a straight recharge roll work out for you.

Cheers

[Angellis_ater]

First, let me say that Chris did a bang up job on this and it was a lot of fun seeing this come to life. We tried to stay true both to previous concepts, while at the same time, doing something new.

Second of all, you guys cannot imagine the number of mechanics we bounced back and forth for the Psi Focus. However, we will take it to heart that it might seem a little hard to understand and while we might not revise it for THIS release (I think Chris would kill us if we delayed it even more ) I will add it to my "things to review" list. Thanks for reading and replying!

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Originally Posted by Jack99

As some of you might know, I review 4e products in my blog here on ENworld and they are also available in Level Up. Through the reviews, I have had the opportunity to chat with quite a few of our 4e publishers and somewhere along the lines, I got involved in several projects, until one day, I summoned the courage to pitch an idea to a publisher. Would you believe that I got a green light on my first pitch? The Mentalist was that pitch, although he was called the Psionicist at that point Old habits die hard I guess.

That's why it is my pleasure to announce that soon, or rather, very soon, the very nice folks of Dreamscarred Press will be releasing the Mentalist, their new Phrenic controller. 1 class, 80+ powers, 3 paragon paths, 36 feats, a new implement and quite a few magic items will be in the PDF that will be released - soon . Since I wrote it, I am rather proud of how it turned out, but mostly I am curious of course, curious of what you guys will think of it. Considering all the time I spend here, I found it only appropriate to share my debut with you guys, and give you a chance to find out if maybe the Mentalist is just what you need for your campaign (*Jedi Mind Trick* - it is) before it is released - soon - to the general public.

Anyway, I hope you will download the preview (attached to this post), check it out, and let me know what you think of it. Good or bad. Because in the end, I am just a fan like you, and even if only 1 person loves the Mentalist, I want it to be as good as possible. And as we all know, greatness is achieved through constructive feedback

Cheers

Congratulations, Jack99, if that really is your serial number.

[sammy]

How about an at will that is a basic attack of some kind? Just a "thought"....

[Siberys]

Oh, I do like the class. One of the few examples of a well-done 3PP class, from what I can see - I usually avoid buying those if I can (OBE's Witch Doctor is the only example of a 3PP class I allow, to date). I even avoid making classes myself because of how relatively complex it is (compared to races, feat trees, and paragon paths). Congrats on gettin' this published!

Anyways, you asked what I thought, and I posted the things that jumped out at me. You did say you were looking for constructive criticism!

Some other thoughts;

A Basic Attack power is a good idea. Not really necessary, but fun.

One other thing that jumped out at me was the class features other than Focus Surge and Meditate; They all grant powers. While it isn't truly necessary, every time I've seen such a feature in a WotC class, it has said in the feature description "You gain the X power." Also, Psi Focus isn't a class feature, though it seems it should be.

[kenmarable]

Quick comments:

-- Very awesome! I can't wait to try it out (too many fun classes, not enough campaigns!)

-- I agree that a basic attack would be nice. I like seeing that with most classes.

-- Personally, I liked the recharge mechanic being based on the type of power used. It seems like a nice balancing factor, and since it comes up every round until you recharge, it doesn't seem like a difficult thing to remember.

-- I'm not a big fan of all of the powers granted at 1st level. For me, it's not a balance thing (others are far more skilled than I am in determining that), but a lack of focus. It seems like it is trying to embrace many different aspects of the class all at once. In my opinion, I think it might be a little tighter focused if you instead had the mentalist choose a "discipline" or something like the warlock pacts, invoker covenants, sorcerer spell sources, etc. Depending on that choice, you get certain class features. That not only tightens the focus of an individual mentalist, but there's the psychological aspect, at least for me, that a class feels more expandable when there is a clear expansion choice. It's not surprising that there's quite a few new warlock pacts (both from WotC and Adamant), but not much for clerics. Plus it adds another hook for power variation where they have modifications depending on your choice. More mechanic hooks = more room design space to explore.

But overall, it's very nice and I'm definitely going to give it a try!

[Jack99]

Hi guys

Thanks for the feedback. From some of the comments (especially yours, kenmarable) it is apparent to me that some of the rules concerning the mentalist and the choices of powers/class features were not crystal clear. Thanks for pointing that out, it has been fixed now.

[Eric Finley]

I agree that I don't like the recharge distinction according to how you used it. Wouldn't it be reasonable to, instead, make the augments of dailies be relatively minor boosts, whereas the augments of at-wills are pretty significant compared to the power they're augmenting? If it's a reasonably par choice, then you can ditch the differential recharge altogether.

Also, personally I'm not a fan of recharge rolls for PCs. I'd prefer to see it accomplished some other way. One thought would be to tie it to the Telepathy/Telekinesis features. Telepathy in particular would be cool... if the target of your telepathy becomes bloodied, becomes damaged while at full HP, or uses a rechargeable monster ability while contacted, then you may spend a focus surge. (But if it reaches 0HP while contacted then you are dazed until the end of your next turn!)

A little trickier for telekinesis, to be sure. Maybe, instead, Recharge Mode is one of the build features; the Telepath's is an add-on to Telepathy, as above, while the Telekinetic's keys to outside events only, and is technically disconnected from their Telekinesis power. (Say, "Hyperkinesthesia: If you are subject to forced movement, you may simultaneously spend a focus surge. If you are granted a shift by an ally, you may forgo that shift to spend a focus surge.")

Even now, the whole focus surge thing needs to be MUCH clearer. For example, as written, the daily powers which allow you to spend a focus surge are not only useless, but harmful... because you have not defined a default effect of spending a focus surge. (Regaining your Psi Focus is defined only within the Psi Focus power, meaning that other methods of spending one outside of that power block do nothing.)

I would say that a much clearer way to do it would be to make "Focused" a binary state. Either your Mentalist is Focused right now, or he is not; by default he begins each encounter Focused (save, possibly, when surprised - DM's discretion?). If he is Focused, then he can use the "Focus" rider on a power, and then become unfocused. If a power allows him to Refocus, then he may expend a Focus Surge (or, perhaps at this point, Psi Surge) to become Focused again. Meditate (poor name for this, btw, since many things such as Eladrin extended rests have the same name, and it certainly implies more than a couple of seconds' effort; maybe, simply, Second Mind) is then an encounter power which lets you Refocus and gain a +2 to Will defense until the end of your next turn. Any power which allows you to Refocus without spending a Focus Surge can simply say as much - it's pretty clear in this construction what that means.

In this construction, then the class features are: Psi Focus (which is the name for "you possess a binary state, Focused/unfocused, with the following rules"), Second Mind, and, say, Phrenic Gift (which is like the Warlock's Pact... it's a package choice which gives you one cantriplike power [telepathy or telekinesis], a Refocus method [empathic recharge or hyperkinesthesia], and one of the encounter tricks [Force of Will or Forceful Blast/Lingering Fire]). Note that the class feature list in the initial blurb should just say "Phrenic Gift" - see Warlock by comparison; Fate of the Void isn't on there by name, only the category names are present.

Picking one of two subsidiary class feature powers, after having already picked a class build, is too finicky. Sure, the Warlocks' At-Wills were a dumb construction, but this is ridiculous in the other direction. Take Lingering Fire and turn it into an encounter power or something, or a Telekinetics' feat (grants a more potent version of it instead of Forceful Blast?), or something like that.

And, as one last note, it jars me a great deal to have this class get proportionately more bursts and blasts than the Wizard. What the heck? I'd much prefer that it accomplished battlefield control primarily by targeting single opponents, but by using them to further hinder others, rather than the host of multi-target effects you've got here.

I mean, come on... is there seriously nothing on the list that telekinetically pushes enemy A into enemy B, and thence into enemy C, and B into D, until it runs out of strength? Why the hell not?

Or an enemy's weapon gets wrenched away and turned against his neighbours, or he becomes afraid of one of his allies and he "voluntarily" flees away from that ally (cf. One Bad Egg's Witch Doctor and the power "Hotfoot"), or one enemy pushes another one, or you slide an enemy into a secondary target and then the primary pushes the secondary and inflicts a penalty to save-versus-cliff rolls resulting from the push, or... there are so many ways that this class could do multi-target effects which are flavored as affecting a single target and inflicting collateral damage on the rest of them, you ought to be able to fill at least half the list with those alone. At that point, a couple of simple bursts and blasts, okay, fine. But right now, I'm afraid the whole thing just doesn't feel that inspired; it could be great, and right now it's merely okay.

[Jack99]

Originally Posted by Eric Finley

I agree that I don't like the recharge distinction according to how you used it. Wouldn't it be reasonable to, instead, make the augments of dailies be relatively minor boosts, whereas the augments of at-wills are pretty significant compared to the power they're augmenting? If it's a reasonably par choice, then you can ditch the differential recharge altogether.

It's definitely an interesting idea.

Even now, the whole focus surge thing needs to be MUCH clearer. For example, as written, the daily powers which allow you to spend a focus surge are not only useless, but harmful... because you have not defined a default effect of spending a focus surge. (Regaining your Psi Focus is defined only within the Psi Focus power, meaning that other methods of spending one outside of that power block do nothing.)

I agree, thanks for pointing this out.

And, as one last note, it jars me a great deal to have this class get proportionately more bursts and blasts than the Wizard. What the heck? I'd much prefer that it accomplished battlefield control primarily by targeting single opponents, but by using them to further hinder others, rather than the host of multi-target effects you've got here.

That's how the empath build was originally, but we felt that he would be a poor controller with a focus on single target powers. Maybe you would have liked that one more

Either way, thanks for all your feedback, while we obviously do not agree on a large number of design points, it was interesting and made me think about quite a few things.

Cheers

[Eric Finley]

You're welcome.

As as to that last point - I'm suggesting multiple target powers. I'm just suggesting that you get there, flavourwise, by influencing a single mind or flinging about a single target. Multitarget stuff which keys off of a single target.

(For example: Frenzy of Equals. Single target, Int vs. Will. On a hit, the target makes a melee basic attack against every one of your enemies within its melee range who is of its own level or greater. Empath rider, choose one of the secondary targets who was hit by the primary target. That secondary target makes a melee basic attack against the primary target in retaliation. That's a multi-target power... but it's channeled through one brain rather than many.)

[Jack99]

Originally Posted by Eric Finley

You're welcome.

As as to that last point - I'm suggesting multiple target powers. I'm just suggesting that you get there, flavourwise, by influencing a single mind or flinging about a single target. Multitarget stuff which keys off of a single target.

(For example: Frenzy of Equals. Single target, Int vs. Will. On a hit, the target makes a melee basic attack against every one of your enemies within its melee range who is of its own level or greater. Empath rider, choose one of the secondary targets who was hit by the primary target. That secondary target makes a melee basic attack against the primary target in retaliation. That's a multi-target power... but it's channeled through one brain rather than many.)

I think I can say without promising too much that there are indeed powers that are like you describe. Just not in the preview. I guess you could say that I branched out abit as the levels rose - makes sense?

[Eric Finley]

Fair enough. On the gripping hand, I generally make my initial decision on whether a class excites me based on a full read of the class features & early powers (at-wills and level 1 encounters mostly), and then a rapid skim of the rest of the powers for feel. So you might want to see if you can't shift one or two such down into the "early exposure" bracket for that reason alone.

In any case, it totally makes sense that it'd be easier to branch things out at higher levels. One of the things I like about the Witch Doctor is that OBE managed to make it evocative and unique even at first level... that's a design goal worthy of emulation, IMO.

Glad I was able to help.

[Angellis_ater]

Should be noted that Chris did some awesome rewrites and reconceptualizations on stuff after your feedback, which is why I love preview-betas. Thanks for helping out guys!