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RPG Legalities: OGF/4eGSL/d20STLDiscussions about the Open Gaming Movement, the Open Gaming License, along with WotC's GSL. This is the new home of the OGF-L and d20-L listserver discussions.
To the best of my knowledge, this subject hasn't been addressed yet by GSL or WotC representatives here, so I'd like to post a short and public query for Wizards of the Coast:
- are there any plans for any type of license addressing subject of software game accessories like PcGen?
- if so, is it possible to learn when such plans or such license information will be released to the public?
The reasons for the query are the following:
- I own quite a few books, so electronic management of campaign information is a must,
- the products I use include large volume of 3rd party publisher materials, and as such, they are generally fan supported,
- PcGen has been with me since 3.0 d20, so, if possible, I would really like to continue using it.
I'm not really hoping for a quick reply, but I'd like to bring this to the attention of someone who may inform of this issue people in charge of designing additional GSL licenses.
Regards,
Ruemere
__________________ Keeper of Scarred Lands Repository. Keep your .sig fit - save space and bandwidth.
I heard on the front page that their was a Q&A email sent to publishers but they cant disclose any specifics. It also said that parts of the Q&A would be addressed in the next pod cast thats supposed to be today. I wonder if the pod cast really will come out today?
Hopefully the podcast will address your concerns.
__________________ -Devin
is 4e cool, yes. but ask me that again when i can play a druid ;p
The Terms and Conditions of the GSLs are going to be similar to the current d20 STL. A couple key points found here and are likely to be included in the license (possibly in different language)
Quote:
• "Interactive Game": means a piece of software that is designed to accept inputs from human players or their agents, and use rules to resolve the success or failure of those inputs, and return some indication of the results of those inputs to the users. Success and failure includes any determination wherein one outcome is preferable to another. This includes the random determination of hit points, ability scores, and the like.
Quote:
Definition of Character Creation:
Character creation means the process of generating and assigning initial scores to abilities, selecting a race, selecting a starting class, assigning initial skill points, selecting initial feats, selecting initial talents, selecting an occupation, and picking an initial alignment. You may, at your option, refer readers to the section on Character Creation in the Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook or d20 Modern Roleplaying Game, including references to any of the named steps in the process for character creation. Character creation does not include creating or modifying the description of a race, a class, a skill, a talent or a feat.
You may indicate that a player should use a race, class, ability, etc., presented in a Covered Product in addition to, or exclusive of, those presented in the Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook or d20 Modern Roleplaying Game. In no way should this paragraph be construed to allow you to present the process for creating a character as defined in the previous paragraph.
Quote:
Definition of Applying the effects of Experience to a Character:
Applying the effects of Experience to a Character means the process for comparing the accumulated experience point total of a character to a chart to determine if the character's level should be incremented. If the experience level of a character exceeds threshold values as defined by the chart, the character is modified in a specified fashion.
Specifically, Applying the effects of Experience to a Character means incrementing the character level of a character by incrementing a class level by one rank, or by adding a new class at first level, and describing how to allocate new skill points, select new feats, select new talents, or gain new class-level linked abilities.
Applying the effects of Experience to a Character does not include creating or modifying an experience point chart or defining a new class (including describing what benefits that class provides at each level).
Quote:
Mandatory Restrictions:
No Covered Product may contain rules or instructions of any kind that:
• Describe a process for Creating a Character
• Describe a process for Applying the Effects of Experience to a Character
No Covered Product may change or extend the definition of any Defined Game Term as enumerated in this Guide.
No Covered Product may include “Miniatures.”
No Covered Product may use the term “Core Book” on its cover, title, advertising, or self-reference.
No Covered Product may be an "Interactive Game" as defined in this Guide.
__________________ Scott Rouse
SR. Brand Manager - Dungeons & Dragons
Wizards of the Coast
I agree with Lizard. Character generation software, by it's very nature, contains rules for creating characters and would thus seems to be in violation.
__________________ Formerly known as Mourn...
Spoiler:
This sounds like a Fantasy Heartbreaker, slouching towards Bethlehem, waiting to be still-born. - Particle Man
Spoiler:
Every edition moves us closer to a better game, in my view. And guess what, 4E will screw some stuff up, just like 3E made monster design a horrific, creativity squashing nightmare (ok, I'm overstating it, yes, you could still make real cool monsters, but it became more of a rules lawyer-y cookie cutter solution which I don't favor). 4E will do things wrong. Maybe it will be that 1st level characters will be too powerful. I don't know. But experimenting is the way to do it--and, as it so happens, it is the TRADITION of D&D. Gary, god rest his soul, didn't stop with the white box. He did Greyhawk. Blackmoor. He added new classes. Psionics. New monsters. Eldritch Wizardry. Then he tried to unify it all with AD&D. If D&D has a tradition, its change, growth and expansion. If it didn't, we'd all just have STR INT and WIS. - Orcus
I agree with Lizard. Character generation software, by it's very nature, contains rules for creating characters and would thus seems to be in violation.
Is there a possibility that WOTC simply wants everyone using their DDI Character Creator instead of a free 3P product that may become a direct competitor of their paid product?
Is there a possibility that WOTC simply wants everyone using their DDI Character Creator instead of a free 3P product that may become a direct competitor of their paid product?
It's possible, but since it's geared towards publishers putting out "stand-alone player's handbooks," I'd say it's primarily there simply to prevent anyone from making a 4e-based game/product that allows you to completely bypass owning the 4e core books.
__________________ Formerly known as Mourn...
Spoiler:
This sounds like a Fantasy Heartbreaker, slouching towards Bethlehem, waiting to be still-born. - Particle Man
Spoiler:
Every edition moves us closer to a better game, in my view. And guess what, 4E will screw some stuff up, just like 3E made monster design a horrific, creativity squashing nightmare (ok, I'm overstating it, yes, you could still make real cool monsters, but it became more of a rules lawyer-y cookie cutter solution which I don't favor). 4E will do things wrong. Maybe it will be that 1st level characters will be too powerful. I don't know. But experimenting is the way to do it--and, as it so happens, it is the TRADITION of D&D. Gary, god rest his soul, didn't stop with the white box. He did Greyhawk. Blackmoor. He added new classes. Psionics. New monsters. Eldritch Wizardry. Then he tried to unify it all with AD&D. If D&D has a tradition, its change, growth and expansion. If it didn't, we'd all just have STR INT and WIS. - Orcus
Is there a possibility that WOTC simply wants everyone using their DDI Character Creator instead of a free 3P product that may become a direct competitor of their paid product?
Is it possible the sun rises in the East?
Those of us who remember 3e's launch will remember WOTC was supposed to have...well...just about everything DDI currently promises, including the virtual game table. We also remember they failed badly at it. With six weeks to launch and the product still in an alpha state, I don't have high hopes.
Those of us who remember 3e's launch will remember WOTC was supposed to have...well...just about everything DDI currently promises, including the virtual game table. We also remember they failed badly at it. With six weeks to launch and the product still in an alpha state, I don't have high hopes.
I honestly don't remember any of this, all I remember was the CD in the back cover of PHB.
Anyway, I have high hopes for DDI.
I honestly don't remember any of this, all I remember was the CD in the back cover of PHB.
Anyway, I have high hopes for DDI.
Hope in one hand, BLEEP in the other, see which fills up first...
Ryan Dancey, in particular, was very vocal about how the CD was just the first step -- there was going to be massive online support, including DM tools, virtual maps, and so on. His main shtick was arguing that there had to always be a way to get together and play, to avoid the breakup of gaming groups due to marriage, jobs, moving, and so on, and that WOTC would accomplish this with a suite of online and downloadable tools. It sounded a LOT like the DDI plans. What happened was twofold:
a)The programs were a lot harder to write than WOTC originally thought.
b)Hasbro wanted all electronic rights to D&D outsourced, and didn't want online tools for the P&P game cannabilizing sales of third party computer games, devaluing the license.
Based on what I know of software development cycles, DDI will not be feature-complete on June 6. I suspect there will be, at best, an open beta of part of the program by then. This is problematic because I suspect a large part of the project revenue stream is DDI subscription content, not profits from book sales. If I have any faith Dragon and Dungeon will be updated regularly, I'll subscribe for those alone -- 10/month is about what I'd pay anyway -- but I am a man of weak faith.
Those of us who remember 3e's launch will remember WOTC was supposed to have...well...just about everything DDI currently promises, including the virtual game table.
You have this all messed up, dude. There was supposed to be a Character Generator.
Jim butler(bishop?), mad with power, and the Fluid people, egged on by This board, began making plans for a rapidly expanding scope creep project. The "Interactive" part was denied and not publicized and violated various software agreements Hasbro has made. The outright failure of that product is no where near the likely failure mode of the DDI.
Ryan was the one who came in and started the process of gutting E-Tools from the increasingly ridiculous Master tools. The guy who was waxing about the do-anything program was jim B.
Byrt Martinez was the guy left holding the bag when JB was laid off.
__________________ No more adventures!
Last edited by Charwoman Gene; 19th April 2008 at 04:24 AM..
You have this all messed up, dude. There was supposed to be a Character Generator.
Jim butler(bishop?), mad with power, and the Fluid people, egged on by This board, began making plans for a rapidly expanding scope creep project. The "Interactive" part was denied and not publicized and violated various software agreements Hasbro has made. The outright failure of that product is no where near the likely failure mode of the DDI.
Ryan was the one who came in and started the process of gutting E-Tools from the increasingly ridiculous Master tools. The guy who was waxing about the do-anything program was jim B.
Byrt Martinez was the guy left holding the bag when JB was laid off.
You may well be right; it was 8 years ago and I may be conflating/mixing things. Consider my version retracted unless someone else remembers it the way I do.
You may well be right; it was 8 years ago and I may be conflating/mixing things. Consider my version retracted unless someone else remembers it the way I do.
Hey, remembering their was a crazy WotC guy trying to do something DDI like is the key here. It just had even LESS of a chance than DDI does. I'm only about one step above you on the hope meter.
Those of us who remember 3e's launch will remember WOTC was supposed to have...well...just about everything DDI currently promises, including the virtual game table. We also remember they failed badly at it. With six weeks to launch and the product still in an alpha state, I don't have high hopes.
From what I have seen we are way ahead of what was ever done for 3e.
We have a functioning Character Generator (both visual and char sheet), a map tool to build dungeons, and Game Table you can import your character & dungeon into and play D&D on with integrated VOIP.
__________________ Scott Rouse
SR. Brand Manager - Dungeons & Dragons
Wizards of the Coast
We have a functioning Character Generator (both visual and char sheet), a map tool to build dungeons, and Game Table you can import your character & dungeon into and play D&D on with integrated VOIP.
Functioning RIGHT NOW? Meaning, people have played at least an encounters worth?
From what I have seen we are way ahead of what was ever done for 3e.
We have a functioning Character Generator (both visual and char sheet), a map tool to build dungeons, and Game Table you can import your character & dungeon into and play D&D on with integrated VOIP.
Functional as in "Release candidate"? Because about a month or two ago, everything I heard was "This is still an alpha, please don't judge it too harshly". But, hey, if you can go from alpha to release that fast, more power to you.
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