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RPG Legalities: OGF/4eGSL/d20STLDiscussions about the Open Gaming Movement, the Open Gaming License, along with WotC's GSL. This is the new home of the OGF-L and d20-L listserver discussions.
Nope. Fortunately they haven't made any such demand. That would be an odd thing for them to do.
It's possible they may invite people to voluntarily enter an agreement (let's call it a "license" relating to a new "game system"; "GSL" for short) whereby they give them something new in exchange for ceasing distribution of such products.
But nope, WotC aren't forcing anyone to do anything.
Regarding the d20 logo - that license was always revocable; it said so right in its own terms, which publishers (including myself) voluntarily agreed to. A six-month sell-off period is remarkably generous, given that the license only stipulates, I think, 30 days.
Well, I have been reading what others have said, but my understanding is anything with the D20/WOTC logo's on it must be sold off or destroyed by the time the license is terminated.
So if that is false, then yeah, this is a moot question.
However suing a corporation isn't expensive if you know how to file a lawsuit. ITs expensive to keep up with all the shenanigans the expensive lawyers pull to make lawsuits go away without actually going to court.
__________________ There used to be a good adventure, or series of adventures, to be found in Dungeon magazine.
Kick butt adventures are always to be found from Paizo/Necromancer and Goodman Games.
Castles and Crusades is my fantasy game of choice.
__________________ It was one of those nights where you turn out the lights, and everything comes into view
The combat system should be based on the world design. The world design should not be based on the combat system.
My 4 year ties a towel to her shoulders and pretends to be a superhero. Roleplaying is not between the covers of a book.
As an extension of that, if you tell me that any game is the same just because you roleplay the same, then as far as I am concerned, you don't get the point.
Well, I have been reading what others have said, but my understanding is anything with the D20/WOTC logo's on it must be sold off or destroyed by the time the license is terminated.
So if that is false, then yeah, this is a moot question.
If you're talked about the d20 license, from what I read and understand, there is a sell off period after the license terminates (IIRC it terminates in June 2008 and there is a sell-off period through the end of 2008), and they'd given prior notice about when the license expires, and this all falls within the provisions of the license itself. I could easily be wrong on the specific details.
As much as I like to find things to vilify the good folks at WotC about, as near as I can determine this isn't one of them.
Well, does the STL say that termination of the license means that those who use (and therefore agreed to the terms of the license) will then destroy all unsold inventory? All I read was that when the license terminated so to would all publication rights. I don't recall seeing anything about also agreeing to destroy all remaining inventory, but its been a long time since I read the STL license.
__________________ There used to be a good adventure, or series of adventures, to be found in Dungeon magazine.
Kick butt adventures are always to be found from Paizo/Necromancer and Goodman Games.
Castles and Crusades is my fantasy game of choice.
Does WOTC have any right, or legal precedence, to demand that legally licensed and published products must be retroactively destroyed?
Upon entering into agreement with WotC on the d20 STL, by providing a signed confirmation card, entities agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the license, including the destruction of product upon termination of the license. This is legally binding, so the answer to your question is yes, WotC does have the right.
This is clearly stated in section 6 of the d20 STL v 6.0.
For more information, please view the license here:
Upon entering into agreement with WotC on the d20 STL, by providing a signed confirmation card, entities agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the license, including the destruction of product upon termination of the license. This is legally binding, so the answer to your question is yes, WotC does have the right.
This is clearly stated in section 6 of the d20 STL v 6.0.
For more information, please view the license here:
Well, does the STL say that termination of the license means that those who use (and therefore agreed to the terms of the license) will then destroy all unsold inventory? All I read was that when the license terminated so to would all publication rights. I don't recall seeing anything about also agreeing to destroy all remaining inventory, but its been a long time since I read the STL license.
Yes. Section 6 of the D20 license states that upon termination of the license a company will destroy any inventory and marketing material with the d20 logo.
edit: as lurkinglidda has already mentioned
Really more than 7 months seems plenty of time to sell off any d20 product, and pdfs and future product can be changed to OGL.
Last edited by Rykion; 22nd April 2008 at 12:40 AM..
The bit about WOTC saying you can only publish a product for one system, not 3.5 and 4.0, seems telling to me.
Rouse says "of course" they'd do this, since they want us to buy 4.0. Yes, I agree it's typical WOTC behavior.
But it seems outside the norm of behavior for similarly place corporations.
I don't see software operaring system vendors saying third-party software vendors can't make stuff that works on their current operating system and older versions -- or even competing versions. E.g., if you make Quark for Mac, you can't make it for Windows, or if you make it for Windows Vista, you can't make it work on Windows XP. In fact, they are usually heavily in favor of backwards compatibility.
With video games, I also see the same game coming out on multiple consoles -- I'm not sure if they ever do multiple generations of the same system, but I think some games do that.
I figure there's 2 reasons WOTC says my latest version and none other:
1) WOTC doesn't care as much about its end users. Backwards compatibility is the consumers problem, not the monopoly producer's.
2) WOTC fears 4e is an inferior product, so it'd frogmarching third parties and consumers into having no other choice. I'm not clear on whether they are not allowed to publish with non-WOTC games, like Hackmaster or Castles & Crusades, or if this is simply anti-3e, anti-consumer (no backwards compatibility), and anti-Paizo. If it says no Hackmaster if you want 4e, it sounds like an anti-trust issue to me. If the RPG industry was big enough for governments to care about (e.g., 1000x larger revenue), WOTC might be in the hot seat with the EU!
At any rate, I realy doubt most publishers have huge stocks of their d20 stuff laying around anymore. Most of it has probably been fire saled or pulped.
__________________
Disco Stu loves disco. Trancejeremy loves trance. But also disco. And breakbeat. But I hate techno.
Stickers that cover up a small logo on a book cover this issue entirely. The BoEF proved this. There's no reason to destroy perfectly good (and sellable) product.
__________________ Darrin Drader
Freelance Writer/Game Designer
Previously posting as Whisperfoot
Stickers that cover up a small logo on a book cover this issue entirely. The BoEF proved this. There's no reason to destroy perfectly good (and sellable) product.
Bwah? Since the legal text includes (or at least is supposed to include) a mention of the D20 license, a sticker on the back really won't do the trick by itself.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
Upon entering into agreement with WotC on the d20 STL, by providing a signed confirmation card, entities agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the license, including the destruction of product upon termination of the license. This is legally binding, so the answer to your question is yes, WotC does have the right.
This is clearly stated in section 6 of the d20 STL v 6.0.
For more information, please view the license here:
Respectfully, I don't think that's what the license says. I'm not a lawyer, but reading the license text, the only apparent provision for termination of the license is through the breach of the license by the licensee, not due to Wizards revoking the license.
Now, of course Wizards could always revise the license to include terms that would revoke the license on a certain date and require destruction of material after a defined period, but its not in this current version of the license. Such after-the-fact revisions of the license may not be enforceable (depending on the jurisdiction).
More importantly, such bad-faith behaviour on the part of Wizards would make potential licensees of the GSL less likely to agree to it, if the GSL contains similar terms to the STL.
To work well licences such as the GSL and STL require a high degree of trust between the parties; Wizards needs to be careful not to lose the trust of third-party publishers during the transition between licenses.
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