GSL Updated status on the revised GSL

[occam]

Originally Posted by Alzrius

It wasn't announced very loudly, but yeah, Linae Foster (aka Lurking Lidda) is no longer with WotC.

Bummer.

[Orcus]

Very disappointing. But I'm getting used to that, unfortunately. I'm still hopeful that Scott will make it happen. He and I had some constructive hypothetical discussions on what needs to change some time back and I hope those happen, even if it is much later than anticipated by any reasonable measurement.

Scott, I'm sticking with you, man! Keep it up! I'm pulling for you!

Clark

[Orcus]

Originally Posted by Corjay

Linae was not the only one working on it. Scott mentioned "changes we made", showing that he and others, not just Linae, were working on the GSL. As I undestood it, Scott was already head of the licensing department, or at least used to be and is again. He is also not the only one having to finish the job. Scott said "we" when he said the SOR still has to be finished. So someone is going to push him to get it done. The fact is that the GSL got done fairly quickly and now they only have to complete the peripheral documents, creating one and modifying another. If it takes two months, big deal. It's a heck of a lot better than taking 6 months or a year.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say "The fact is that the GSL got done fairly quickly." That is not true.

The GSL revisions are Scott's baby. He and Linae were working on it. Now its just him. Then it goes to legal. But other than legal it is my understanding there is no other "D&D guy" on it.

Also not sure about the 2 months thing. Two months from when? Its already been about 2 months. And the revisions were late even then. And, frankly, the stuff they are changing -- if they do change it -- should never have been there in the first place.

Believe me, I've been the Wizards cheerleader. I still hope Scott pulls this out. But lets at least look at it in light of the actual facts, not spin.

Clark

[Corjay]

When you don't have anyone stating the actual facts, then you only have conjecture, assumptions based on typical scenarios. Thank you for giving us some information. But unless you or someone else in the know wish to continue to provide that kind of information, there's still going to be assumptions made. You can't stop assumptions off of wishful thinking. If you want the information to be accurate, then it's the responsibility of the ones with that information to share it. Conversation about the issues isn't going to stop just because you don't provide the information. For instance, EVERYONE here, before you came along just now, thought real lawyers were involved with the GSL (which is a natural assumption considering lawyers should be the ones handling contracts). According to your testimony here, no lawyers are involved whatsoever. So don't pick the most vocal guy out of the crowd and blame him for all the assumptions. People are going to converse with what little information they are given, fill in the blanks with what is known about such things, and from that information an extended view of the situation is going to develop. If you want that view to be correct(ed), then you need to speak up more often.

[ruemere]

Originally Posted by Corjay

[...]For instance, EVERYONE here, before you came along just now, thought real lawyers were involved with the GSL (which is a natural assumption considering lawyers should be the ones handling contracts). According to your testimony here, no lawyers are involved whatsoever.[...]

Corjay,

Orcus merely said something about the creative part of the job, i.e. bringing the revisions in. In addition to this particular activity you also could have:
- legal verification,
- corporate identity and corporate policies and corporate business plan to consider,
- adding support (or removing support) for various proposals from other staffers or other departments,
- review by decision makers,
- review during meetings of various people involved in GSL.

The really disheartening part of this (for me) is that GSL revision is important to tying business plans of third party publishers to those of WotC.

Since the people who work with GSL were downsized, and since according to Scott's words on these boards, he has other, higher priorities, to deal with, the GSL revision is likely to be postponed and, even worse, third party publishers, are indirectly informed that their input for 4E market is... even less important.

In other words, GSL revision, and subequently third party publishers... I think I don't need to spell it any clearer than this.

Regards,
Ruemere

[Corjay]

Originally Posted by ruemere

Corjay,

Orcus merely said something about the creative part of the job, i.e. bringing the revisions in. In addition to this particular activity you also could have:
- legal verification,
- corporate identity and corporate policies and corporate business plan to consider,
- adding support (or removing support) for various proposals from other staffers or other departments,
- review by decision makers,
- review during meetings of various people involved in GSL.

The really disheartening part of this (for me) is that GSL revision is important to tying business plans of third party publishers to those of WotC.

Since the people who work with GSL were downsized, and since according to Scott's words on these boards, he has other, higher priorities, to deal with, the GSL revision is likely to be postponed and, even worse, third party publishers, are indirectly informed that their input for 4E market is... even less important.

In other words, GSL revision, and subequently third party publishers... I think I don't need to spell it any clearer than this.

Regards,
Ruemere

That's certainly possible, but considering their already tight resources, then being downsized, I would think that there should be no hard feelings on 3pp's part if WOTC has to focus its immediate attention on keeping afloat. It appears that the results of this last year and a half has been as disastrous for WOTC as I suspected. But the puzzling part is that they are still paying people to develop free computer games as per their latest email. I have no idea what the bottom line could possibly be in that.

[Ranger REG]

Originally Posted by Brown Jenkin

The GSL right now only limits future publishing under the OGL. If Green Ronan wanted to do a future WEG d6 version it would be fine. But as you say, we have no idea what the GSL 2.0 will or wont restrict.

But I don't wan't Freeport for the "bucket o' dice" system. I want Freeport for the 3.5e d20 System.

If Green Ronin wish to opt out of 4e after publishing Freeport for 4e, then they cannot bring that franchise back to 3.5e/d20 or for Pathfinder.

Or can they? I want to know about this SOR.

[Ranger REG]

Originally Posted by Corjay

But the puzzling part is that they are still paying people to develop free computer games as per their latest email. I have no idea what the bottom line could possibly be in that.

???

What free computer games? Isn't Infogrames (aka Atari), the current holder of Hasbro's electronics right, including WotC's D&D, responsible for that?

[Corjay]

I'm speaking of the little games they had on Gleemax Games. GameTable Online, not Atari (there's no reason why they should be exclusive to any one game developer or bound by HASBRO's licenses), developed their online strategy games. So that WOTC can focus on their DDI and M:tG III projects, they are letting GameTable Online host their games for free. Besides those they have already handed over (including digital A&A), they have 2 or 3 more games in the works that will also be handed over.

Here's the first announcement:
BlogPost

The article says that it's paid for via advertisements, I guess I missed that the first time, but then I've always been kind of slow on how that pays for video game development and turns a profit. I guess sense GTO does the actual development, it's pretty much pure profit for WOTC and little effort (WOTC still has to design the rules of those games), so just disregard the complaint.

[IanArgent]

Fromt hat post and others, it looks like WotC had engaged GTO to develop online versions of their games for hosting (and sale) on Gleemax. When the grand plans for Gleemax fell through, the games still existed, so they licensed them out to GTO to host on their own site. That way both sides get something out of their development effort.

[Orcus]

Originally Posted by Corjay

For instance, EVERYONE here, before you came along just now, thought real lawyers were involved with the GSL (which is a natural assumption considering lawyers should be the ones handling contracts). According to your testimony here, no lawyers are involved whatsoever. So don't pick the most vocal guy out of the crowd and blame him for all the assumptions. People are going to converse with what little information they are given, fill in the blanks with what is known about such things, and from that information an extended view of the situation is going to develop. If you want that view to be correct(ed), then you need to speak up more often.

What are you talking about? I never said there are no lawyers involved. I said it was Scott and Linae and legal. Legal is the legal department, which has lawyers. I'm not sure what I said that made you think there arent lawyers involved.

All I see from you is wild speculation, misstatement (or misunderstanding) of facts and crazy presumptions.

Just cause you dont have info doesnt justify wild speculation.

Clark

[FormerlyDickensC]

Can I say it? Can I? Can I, papa?

.....this is ridiculous. And stupid.

[Corjay]

Originally Posted by Orcus

What are you talking about? I never said there are no lawyers involved. I said it was Scott and Linae and legal. Legal is the legal department, which has lawyers. I'm not sure what I said that made you think there arent lawyers involved.

All I see from you is wild speculation, misstatement (or misunderstanding) of facts and crazy presumptions.

Just cause you dont have info doesnt justify wild speculation.

Clark

I missed the "and it goes to legal part." Sue me. Like I said, speculation, "wild" or not, is going to happen whether you like it or not. The question, as I said, is if those in the know are going to be there to keep it on track. It's not like anyone here knows what's going on behind closed doors except those who converse with those who are behind the doors. Again, as I said, EVERYONE here is speculating, except apparently you. Therefore speculation is all any of us have. You call my speculations "wild", but my speculations are based on how things are often done in the business and legal world. If you take a look at some of the other speculations, you'll find that my speculations have kept things from going too far afield. You're using words like "wild" and "crazy" to exaggerate, but good thing I've seen posts from you in the past so that I know to take it with a grain of salt.

Also, you state that the legal department part comes after Scott and Linae's job, so I would assume that Scott's statement that "it just needs to get pushed to a final document" is referring to legal, or was the approval done by legal and the final document is referring to something else? So, if it is going to legal, can you tell us whether Legal decides things by Robert's Rules of Order or by simple approvals? It matters concerning time. RRO could take weeks. Simple approval could take as little as a day or two once it leaves Scott's possession. After legal, it should be just a matter of posting it.

As you can see, there are questions. Do you have the answers? If so, please share, otherwise we're going to have to go into an abnoxious bout of "wild speculation" and "crazy presumptions" that will drive you up the wall. In that case I have a number to a good psychiatrist if you need it.

[Scott_Rouse]

Corjay,

Orcus is more in the know than most, you're shooting the messenger. The situation he describes is mostly correct.

Clark,

Thanks for the continued encouragement!

[Corjay]

Correction. I was shooting back at the messenger. I don't like being in the crosshairs.

[dmccoy1693]

Corjay,

I know you're new around these parts so let me give you the cliff notes.

Never Argue With the Demon Lord, Orcus.

He's been around with the OGL since before day 1 and can probably quote the whole OGL and d20STL by heart. Plus he's a lawyer so he knows every detail and intracacy better then probably anyone else around here. Add to the fact that he's a demon lord and he knows how to twist it all to his advantage. He's had exclusive licenses with Wizards and has personal relationships with just about everyone at Wizards, White Wolf, and Paizo.

In short, Orcus is second only to the voice of god (Morrus) around these parts.

I don't want to sound like I'm ganging up on your, just trying to help you out.

[Corjay]

No problem. I get it. But trust me when I say his trolling statements are no comparison to others I've dealt with. If a demon, then a lesser demon in my experience. Thanks, though.

[phloog]

Originally Posted by Corjay

No problem. I get it. But trust me when I say his trolling statements are no comparison to others I've dealt with. If a demon, then a lesser demon in my experience. Thanks, though.

I don't believe I have ever seen a case where the term 'trolling' could be applied to Clark...you've got your monsters mixed up. The fact that you closed this 'no problem. I get it' post with a snarky dig is a bit frustrating.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get from this forum, and I understand that not everyone is here to make pals, but you do leave me with the impression that you'd like to ruffle people's feathers for rufflin's sake. This could be put down to a non-ideal first impression.

But Clark is a demon, not a troll by a longshot. If his 'trolling' seems inferior, it's because he's not.

[Corjay]

No need to get into semantics. Maybe "snark" is a better word as you used towards mine. Snark for snark is the way its been.

Anyway, back on topic, or maybe to settle the topic, the GSL is being worked on, and apparently it won't be much longer (with the exception that we still don't know if Legal will resolve it by committee or by simple approval; maybe someone would like to inform us).

[Orcus]

Originally Posted by Scott_Rouse

Corjay,

Orcus is more in the know than most, you're shooting the messenger. The situation he describes is mostly correct.

Clark,

Thanks for the continued encouragement!

Hey Scott, I hope I wasnt speaking out of school in describing that process generally. I just couldnt take the misinformation any more. Not sure why it bothers me. You're a big boy and can handle it yourself

You know I am hoping big time that you can pull this off... I am dying to support 4E.

Clark