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RPG Legalities: OGF/4eGSL/d20STLDiscussions about the Open Gaming Movement, the Open Gaming License, along with WotC's GSL. This is the new home of the OGF-L and d20-L listserver discussions.
The GSL makes it pretty clear that you can use (A) anything in the SRD or (B) the given logo.
Say I wanted to make a product that incorporated material from a splat. Perhaps I am writing a module and want to include "Armor of Resistance" from the Adventurer's Vault as part of the treasure horde, or describe an NPC as being a "swordmage" from the FR book.
Obviously you can't reprint the swordmage class in your module. Nor can you give the properties of Armor of Resistance. But could you get away with saying:
The dragon's treasure horde includes:
1303 Copper Pieces
2 x 100 GP gems
Armor of Resistance (Scale mail) - See Adventurer's Vault
+2 mace - See PHB
I don't think that would be allowed under the license. Until the license gives you permission to include material I would pretend anyother WOTC source didn't exist. Talk to a lawyer to be sure....
That's what I thought as well. Is there any rumor that the SRD will be updated?
No, but we are all waiting on pins and needles. However, I am not sure whether they will include many books outside the core three (plus their other volumes). Early on, WotC said that more books would become "open", but seeing the little that was "open" in 3.x I am not holding my breath.
__________________ Any Edition and Feudal Lords Products Are Now Available From Alea Publishing Group
No, but we are all waiting on pins and needles. However, I am not sure whether they will include many books outside the core three (plus their other volumes). Early on, WotC said that more books would become "open", but seeing the little that was "open" in 3.x I am not holding my breath.
Give how long the revised GSL is taking I don't see much more being added to the SRD either.
__________________ Brain: Come Pinky! We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Brain: The same thing we do every night....TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
That's what I thought as well. Is there any rumor that the SRD will be updated?
That's the idea, so says WotC. They will add future references from future books, since they don't need to add OGC as before (which is like practically giving away game mechanics).
__________________ Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
My philosophy is "you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way." --Monte Cook
If there is something you really want to use from a canonical wotc source, just take the idea and express it in different language...I know, I know....either your saying "duh!" or "what the heck does that mean?"
if its a magical item, you can create your own item with basically the same stats/effects using your own words. if its a character archetype even easier. if its...anything, just re-express it functionally the same but aesthetically different.
how different is different enough....just don't use the same words. it will all be governed by copyright law, and words are all that it protects (in this case).
I would say that I'm not a lawyer, but it has no bearing anyway. everything you do you do at your own peril...I think that is a part of being an adult...but maybe I'm just a cynical jerk.
...no being banned for calling out mods has made me cynical.
but seriously, you're free to steal ideas. no one can own an idea...only can own the expression of an idea. ...at least in US law.
EDIT - on further thought, I realized that it might be better to be able to rely on the reader's preexisting understanding of a particular thing (item/class/character/power/whatever), but the beauty this way is that you can open the material to ppl who don't have the splat that you intended to refer to. plus you can add your own flare to it. I mean, whats better than that...take an already good idea, use it for basically free, and maybe even tailor slightly to your own needs. ...stealing ideas...its what makes America great!!
__________________ Again, you could play this as just a flat series of die rolls, but if that's all you want to do, why are you playing a RPG? - Keith Baker
Last edited by FormerlyDickensC; 29th September 2008 at 05:49 AM..
but seriously, you're free to steal ideas. no one can own an idea...only can own the expression of an idea. ...at least in US law.
Before acting on this suggestion, remember that for any party to the GSL the principal constraint on action is not copyright law but contract law. And in entering the contract that is the GSL a publisher agrees to grant WotC more rights with respect to its published material than it would enjoy under copyright law.
Before acting on this suggestion, remember that for any party to the GSL the principal constraint on action is not copyright law but contract law. And in entering the contract that is the GSL a publisher agrees to grant WotC more rights with respect to its published material than it would enjoy under copyright law.
One more reason why I wish more publishers would dare to take the copyright route.
I agree that the 'make something essentially the same with a different name' is a neat idea (though perhaps not allowed under GSL - - what DOES constitute a no-no reworking?), I think even if this was allowed under the GSL it is one more reason why as a PLAYER I don't like 4Es way of working.
I don't want to have to keep track of 4,435 names for a Cloak of Protection, just because WOTC is circling the wagons on IP.
What if I don't agree with WotC's version of the Cloak of Protection?
--still a fan of OGL.
Well, that is a Game Master's choice to switch things around - realistically, as a publisher, it is (most of the time) more profitable to side with the majority since the majority of people play D&D as it is written in the core books (I am talking about making supplements).
To be frank, I am a great fan of the OGL, but my problem is consumers get screwed by buying regurgitated rules (I do not refer to innovations and "add-ons" to existing rules). It is definitely a "buyer beware" market - and now even more so because you will see Shaw of Protection, Robe of Protection, T-shirt of Protection, etc. with a little rewording to make it slightly different rather than making new and imaginative items.
What consumer spending his or her hard-earned money would like that? I know I wouldn't.
As a Game Master myself, if I don't like something I change it or leave it out all together (both are rare in my game). I really don't need to buy a 3PP book telling me that WotC has it all wrong about what a Cloak of Protection should be. I want something to enhance my game or my role-playing experience - or fill a need that WotC has yet to provide.
I do have plenty of OGL stuff still for sale, but hurry I will have to take most of it down before Oct. 1st due to the launch of our new GSL products .
- - wishing people bought more OGL stuff, but WotC is playing with a stacked deck and people hunger for new and shiny GSL products.
I must say though, I do enjoy designing 4th Edition material over 3rd Edition. Plus, I always hated the legal mumbo jumbo of the OGL along with painstakingly identifying my PI and OGC. WotC just needs to loosen the reins a bit on the SRD for 4th Edition and I will be in hog heaven.
__________________ Any Edition and Feudal Lords Products Are Now Available From Alea Publishing Group
To be frank, I am a great fan of the OGL, but my problem is consumers get screwed by buying regurgitated rules (I do not refer to innovations and "add-ons" to existing rules). It is definitely a "buyer beware" market - and now even more so because you will see Shaw of Protection, Robe of Protection, T-shirt of Protection, etc. with a little rewording to make it slightly different rather than making new and imaginative items.
What consumer spending his or her hard-earned money would like that? I know I wouldn't.
A customer that knows what he wants and doesn't accept only one option for his favorite rulesystem. Using an analogy, I'd rather see many varieties (brands) of peanut butter on the shelves, even though they're based on a basic peanut butter recipe. I don't want to see only one choice.
__________________ Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
My philosophy is "you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way." --Monte Cook
A customer that knows what he wants and doesn't accept only one option for his favorite rulesystem. Using an analogy, I'd rather see many varieties (brands) of peanut butter on the shelves, even though they're based on a basic peanut butter recipe. I don't want to see only one choice.
True enough, but do you expect the customer to buy everyone of those brands of peanut butter or just one. I like variety as a customer, but in the end it is just another brand of peanut butter (personally, I like it whipped ).
But, as a publisher, I am going to cater to the rule system that sells the most and not devote my time to off-shoots. Furthermore, I will do it by not rehashing their elements and selling it as new, but adding components to it hopefully improving the game.
So, using your analogy, I cater to those that eat peanut butter (the most popular brand; i.e. those in the majority) and not cashew butter, or "hey, it tastes just like peanut butter", or the supermarket brand that uses the same recipe.
It's not good business sense.
On the flip side, as a customer, I like delving into new systems: Deadlands, Vampire, etc. or seeing how others tweaked the 3.X rules system to make a new game (True 20, Iron Heroes) - I might borrow from those systems - but in the end I am still playing good ole' D&D on Friday nights (and so does a majority of gamers).
So, why, as a publisher, should I devote my time rehashing what is already done for just one or two customers to have variety when I can make something entirely new to fit in the system they already love and enjoy.
Fun for a customer, but not great business sense as a publisher.
__________________ Any Edition and Feudal Lords Products Are Now Available From Alea Publishing Group
True enough, but do you expect the customer to buy everyone of those brands of peanut butter or just one. I like variety as a customer, but in the end it is just another brand of peanut butter (personally, I like it whipped ).
What if WotC provided is NOT whipped?
You may like it whipped, but I like mine crunchy. As I said before, it's good to have options. Not everyone here is an Eberron fan. Not everyone is a fan of the 3.5e Complete Warrior Samurai class.
__________________ Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
My philosophy is "you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way." --Monte Cook
You may like it whipped, but I like mine crunchy. As I said before, it's good to have options. Not everyone here is an Eberron fan. Not everyone is a fan of the 3.5e Complete Warrior Samurai class.
Yes, but you still didn't answer my question:
So, why, as a publisher, should I devote my time rehashing what is already done for just one or two customers to have variety when I can make something entirely new to fit in the system they already love and enjoy?
__________________ Any Edition and Feudal Lords Products Are Now Available From Alea Publishing Group
So, why, as a publisher, should I devote my time...
Because you can do better than WotC (i.e., out-of-the-box thinking), especially when you're aware of their customers' dissatisfaction with certain mechanics. Not all of them, since you are using WotC's stuff to make money.
As a publisher, how are you going to make me spend my money on your products? Or are you just another "peanut butter brand"?
__________________ Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
My philosophy is "you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way." --Monte Cook
As a publisher, how are you going to make me spend my money on your products? Or are you just another "peanut butter brand"?
I think the idea is to add new content to D&D so that the majority (who buy WoTC's D&D books and like to play that game) will want to buy the book, rather than to publish reworkings of what is already present in D&D, which is appealing only to those (hypothesised to be a minority) who don't like what WoTC is selling them in the D&D books.
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