[B.A.D.D.] I did a bad thing....

Gargoyle · Mar 6, 2002

CRGreathouse said:
I'm sure there was. What if one of the pieces of treasure (art object) was very special and known to the mate? It could then locate object (from a scroll) and find the PCs easily...

It could find them, but not too easily. Locate Object has a quite limited range of 400ft plus 40ft/level. Even Enlarged, it would be of very limited use. If it knows they're in a nearby town or village, doing a flyby with locate object would work quite well though. Risky behavior for a dragon, especially if the settlement was big, but understandable. Imagine the commotion of a dragon skimming the rooftops, ignoring arrows from the town guard and just looking... then demanding that the townsfolk surrender the party.

adndgamer · Mar 6, 2002

CRGreathouse said:
I'm sure there was. What if one of the pieces of treasure (art object) was very special and known to the mate? It could then locate object (from a scroll) and find the PCs easily...

You are an evil, evil, man.

Good thinking!

Oh, and I agree completely that the dragon should have a like age-category.

CRGreathouse · Mar 6, 2002

Gargoyle said:
It could find them, but not too easily.

You're right; it should use discern location.

adndgamer · Mar 6, 2002

Gargoyle said:
It could find them, but not too easily. Locate Object has a quite limited range of 400ft plus 40ft/level. Even Enlarged, it would be of very limited use. If it knows they're in a nearby town or village, doing a flyby with locate object would work quite well though. Risky behavior for a dragon, especially if the settlement was big, but understandable. Imagine the commotion of a dragon skimming the rooftops, ignoring arrows from the town guard and just looking... then demanding that the townsfolk surrender the party.

That would be pretty cool

But I don't think the party would be too difficult to find unless they were in a large population center.

Gargoyle · Mar 6, 2002

Squire James said:
Frankly, I don't see this as a BADD situation. The heroes were powerful enough to take the dragons in question out, and they thought things through well enough to execute their plans and the dragon. Not every dragon has a Dragon Mountain to work with, and sometimes those spells just aren't that darn useful!

Still... a good Dispel Magic or two would do wonders in that encounter!

Though some may disagree, I think one of the overall tenents of BADD is that dragons should always be challenging foes. Dragon encounters are rare enough in most campaigns that when they are encountered, the DM should work hard to make sure it's not anti-climatic. Since the DM in this case seems to think the players weren't challenged, it seems to be a BADD scenario to me.

However, I'm inclined to agree with most of your post; if the players do a good job, they should deserve to win, and dragons are not infallible. Dragons aren't all super-intelligent and make mistakes. And some are just young and weak, compared to the PC's level.

But usually the reason dragons aren't as much of a challenge as they should be is poor tactics on the DM's part, or forgetting one or more of the dragon's many abilities. (Spells, damage reduction, feats, etc)

Gargoyle · Mar 6, 2002

CRGreathouse said:
You're right; it should use discern location.

Yes, that would be much more efficient, but the locate object might be the best a dragon could do in short notice, since discern location is 8th level and unlikely to be in their hoard (unless the dragon anticipated such a thing). They could certainly get a scroll or have an NPC ally cast it for them in time though...

Gargoyle · Mar 6, 2002

adndgamer said:
That would be pretty cool

But I don't think the party would be too difficult to find unless they were in a large population center.

I think you're right. Even a "large city" in most D&D campaigns is pretty small, and could probably be flown over pretty thoroughly by a dragon within the duration of the spell. And if they can cast it once, they can probably cast it again...

Maldur · Mar 6, 2002

You can always let the local farmers blame the party for this "new"dragon killing their aunts and uncles, two villages over. Try adventuring when noone will sell them supplies and other resources.

The new dragon wouldn't even have to find them, it could just remotely hamper the party.

You will want your players to keep their beloved characters. So if the new dragon is very deadly run and he kills the party, BADD might be happy but your players won't!!

Dont let guild ruin your game. play your dragons wisely and truefully but a wel played group of adventurers of the right level should be able to take down a dragon.

ps why is nobody complaining about the mistreatment of trolls or goblins? It doesn't really matter if your characters attack a goblin air or a dragon lair. just balance your encounters and if the dice roll against the PCs bail them out but reduce the awards.

maddman75 · Mar 6, 2002

That's a great idea - A section for confessions of dragon disposers - a lesson for others. MIght see if I can find some kind of blogging software to let people make thier own confessions.

Plane Sailing · Mar 6, 2002

Frankly, I don't see this as a BADD situation. The heroes were powerful enough to take the dragons in question out

I think that a Mature Green Dragon is CR15, and if the party was 4 10th level characters then you would expect there to be at least one death (and probably more, especially if the party weren't planning to encounter a green dragon, prepared and fresh)