Shadowdale Besieged

Eryk Valdemar · Sep 8, 2004

NOTE: I recently posted this message in the forums at WotC, but was directed here by some of its members because of the lack in response.

I don't know how many of you were playing Forgotten Realms back in the 2E days (or still are for that matter) but anyone who has read the history section knows of a period of time called "The Avatar Crisis," "The Godswar," or "The Time of Troubles." In 2E this was a trilogy of adventures that follow the heroes as they help find the cryptic Tablets of Fate and return the fallen deities to their former positions in the sky.

I am a DM playing in 3E, and I have been doing so for five years. Recently I heard about this trilogy of 2E adventures and in a rush of excitement, I bought used copies of them all (for about thirty dollars en masse. Ebay. If I had found a store here in tiny Peoria, IL, then I could have gotten them cheaper. What can I say, I'm lazy.) Anyway, because I consider the 3E rules superior to their predecessors, I'm going to convert all NPCS and such in this trilogy to 3E. It'll be a little bit of work, but overall it should come with a huge payoff. To make it work, I'm taking the players back in time (as mentioned, this trilogy is in the history. About twenty years in the history actually.) That is the players, mind you, not the PCs. I'm not a big fan of time travel campaigns, I've had bad experiences. Anyway, considering this is all backstory for my main issue, I'll continue. Any tips on this trilogy whatsoever (from any who have run it, or just general tips) would be appreciated.

Onward to the main issue. At the end of the first adventure in the trilogy, "Shadowdale," the dale is under seige by armies (led by Bane's Avatar) from Zhentil Keep. Over the past five years I have played in numerous campaigns where a 'war' was attempted, and I have made similar attempts myself. However, I find it is difficult to pull off a realistic 'war' without BATTLESYTEM or miniatures, etc. I am just looking for any tips on how to run this battle, or any war in general (for future knowledge.) Thanks in advance, your words are much appreciated.

Eryk

Theron · Sep 8, 2004

I just throw realism out the window in favor of interesting narrative. Trying to play out the entire battle turns a roleplaying session into a wargame, typically a wargame consisting of the GM vs. all the players (or, worse, only the players who dig wargames).

My approach is to figure out in advance how the battle is likely to play out (for good or ill), then figure out ways the PCs can influence the outcome (because ultimately, the game is about them, not the competence of some NPC commander).

Once you've got that figured out, put the PCs where you need them, within the constraints of character class and personality, etc. If Our Heroes are in different parts of the battlefield, so much the better. That gives you the chance to jump around from scene to scene, giving each a bit of spotlight time, while keeping the narrative moving.

Spotlight time can be things like a Rogue or Ranger scouting enemy movements comes across an unsuspecting unit and can perhaps lead them into an ambush. Or a doughty warrior glimpses that moment when there is literally nothing between him and the enemy banner carrier. A mage might suddenly find his position overrun and have to deal with an oncoming horde of orcs with insufficient mundane protection. The possibilities are endless.

Eryk Valdemar · Sep 8, 2004

Theron said:
My approach is to figure out in advance how the battle is likely to play out (for good or ill), then figure out ways the PCs can influence the outcome (because ultimately, the game is about them, not the competence of some NPC commander).

Good advice, much appreciated, though more would be appreciated. I will take that suggestion into account, and use it of course, but from time to time a battle would be run, small or large. Maybe more for my own personal amusement and knowledge more than anything, I would just really like to know if anyone has a strategy for actually recording and organizing a battle with more than thirty people?

Varianor Abroad · Sep 8, 2004

Eryk Valdemar said:
Good advice, much appreciated, though more would be appreciated. I will take that suggestion into account, and use it of course, but from time to time a battle would be run, small or large. Maybe more for my own personal amusement and knowledge more than anything, I would just really like to know if anyone has a strategy for actually recording and organizing a battle with more than thirty people?

Yep. Pick up a mass combat system. There are three that I'm aware of: Fields of Blood, uhh Warcraft?, and Cry Havoc from Malhavoc Press. The latter is the only one I own, so I'll speak to that. It has a simple combat resolution for "macroscaling" a battle and a detail-level to run a fight between a group of a couple hundred. I've heard that it's not good for running a fight with thousands (which I never tried), but it worked great for me doing some battles of 50, 100 or 200 on a side. Including flyers.

Olgar Shiverstone · Sep 9, 2004

My best advice would be to pile the three modules together and light them on fire. They are some of the worst three modules TSR ever published -- railroaded crap where the PCs get to watch some NPCs do everything important. I recommend you get your red pen out and do some major editting. Now for combat ...

An alternate approach, rather than running a mass combat campaign, would be to give the PCs a key role as a sort of "special operations unit" in the battle. Maybe they have to penetrate the enemy camp, find the BBEG, and take him down, or maybe they have to destroy the catapults that are the lynchpin of the enemy's plan, or kill a key wizard, or hold a key point (like the bridge) on the battlefield. They can play a more-or-less normal game, while the battle rages around them -- and what they see around them will reflect how successfully they are performing. Their success or failure is the success or failure of the battle.

I ran a siege game this way a while back, and it was one of our more fun sessions, IMO.

diaglo · Sep 9, 2004

Olgar Shiverstone said:
My best advice would be to pile the three modules together and light them on fire. They are some of the worst three modules TSR ever published -- railroaded crap where the PCs get to watch some NPCs do everything important. I recommend you get your red pen out and do some major editting. Now for combat ...

ditto.

many of the mass combat accessories of the 2ed era have the same failing.

starting with the 1ed attempt at the Battlesystem which got ported into the FR.... H1, H2, H3, H4...

but if you are sold on the idea. pickup I14 Sword of the Iron Legion and FRQ2 Hordes of Dragonspear for some help.

if you want to try something in the newer editions pickup Cry Havoc it sounds more like want you want to do.

Shadowdale Besieged

Eryk Valdemar

First Post

Theron

Explorer

Eryk Valdemar

First Post

Varianor Abroad

Explorer

Olgar Shiverstone

Legend

diaglo

Adventurer

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