Spontaneous casters: Lower-level spells in higher-level slots?

Mouseferatu · Sep 9, 2004

Okay, I was considering this as relates to the psion v. arcane caster thread elsewhere on this page, and I realized something.

The rule allowing sorcerers to use a higher-level slot to cast a lower-level spell seems to have been removed from 3.5!

It's in the third paragraph of the "Spells" section of the sorcerer entry in the 3.0 PHB. But I can't find it anywhere in the 3.5 PHB.

Anyone know if this was a deliberate change or simply an error? (I don't really want to bug the WotC folks with this, since it's not relevant to the project I'm working on.)

Steve Jung · Sep 9, 2004

Would this sentence from the PHB/SRD help?

Ch.10 Magic: Casting Spells: Choosing a Spell said:
If you’re a bard or sorcerer, you can select any spell you know, provided you are capable of casting spells of that level or higher.

Mouseferatu · Sep 9, 2004

Steve Jung said:
Would this sentence from the PHB/SRD help?

It does, but it's still not quite the same as having it spelled out. I know of people who would argue about precisely what that sentence means. "It just means you have to be able to cast spells of that level or higher, not that you can actually use the higher slot!" Yes, it's goofy semantics, but I've seen it happen.

Also, I wonder why they took those specific references out of the bard and sorcerer entries. It's possible, after all, that the above reference being left in was in fact the mistake, rather than the others being taken out.

I know it doesn't make a huge difference. I'm still going to allow the option in my games. I'm just trying to get a handle on the official ruling.

Lord Pendragon · Sep 9, 2004

Emphasis mine:

3.5 srd said:
Spell Slots: The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his or her due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower level.

Of course, the spell's save DC remains the same as if it'd been cast in its normal slot, unless the bard/sorcerer has also taken Heighten Spell.

Mouseferatu · Sep 9, 2004

A-ha! That's it.

I wonder why it's in the section on preparing wizard spells specifically, when it clearly refers to more than just wizards. Weird--but it would explain why I missed it.

(I still wish they'd actually mention it in reference to sorcerers and bards directly, but that's just me being nitpicky in anticipation of rules lawyering down the road.)

Thanks much.

Thanee · Sep 9, 2004

Hehe, that's totally annoying in the PC game Temple of Elemental Evil, where it actually not works like this (you can only cast spells with a slot at exactly their level).

So you basically need Heighten Spell there only to be able to fill higher level slots with lower level spells, i.e. heightened Magic Missile.

Bye
Thanee

noeuphoria · Sep 9, 2004

We could fill whole threads with what was wrong with that game. After playing Baldur's Gate II, I was expecting something of similar quality, just updated to 3.5. Needless to say, my disappointment was vast. However, I found playing Knights of the old Republic washed the unpleasant elemental evil taste out.

Tyrol · Sep 9, 2004

Just thought I'd mention that for a spontaneous caster, using Heighten spell is a full round action... so the caster might not always want/be able to use heighten spell (i.e. only a standard action available) and still cast a lower level spell in a higher level slot.

No one has said anything to the contrary or anything, just thought I'd mention it as a reminder because it can be easy to overlook.