Need help with campaign-specific PrC [LEW - Dervish of Sairundan v3ac]

Knight Otu

First Post
(This is a cross post from the Living Enworld boards)
This is the first draft of a prestige class for Living Enworld, for warriors from a region strongly aligned to elemental air, and djinn.
It is loosely based on the dervish from Complete Warrior, but I did some extensive rewriting of the abilities (mostly toning down).
A number of abilities and requirements are for flavor, such as the Test, Song of the Storms United and the Song of the Blade. The flavor requirements (alignment, the special requirement and the test) of course are not meant to impact the balance of the class - they are there simply for a better tie to Sairundan.
I'm a bit concerned about the number of 1st level abilities, though I don't think that Songs of the Storms united will be a major point.
I'm also torn on the 6th and 10th level abilities that add the dervish's Dexterity bonus to damage dealt. They may be fine, considering they come pretty late in the advancement, but I'm not sure.
For the Test, I'd expect the DCs to be 15ish, +-2 according to the mood of the appropriate dervish.

Dervish of Sairundan
Be as the wind, listen to the storm, and care for the whims of your spirits as well as others. This is the the Path of the Dervish.
Sairundan, a land ruled by a loose federation of tribes, was supposedly founded by several djinn, who passed their knowledge and their blood to the mortals under their care. The legends of these times tell that many Sairundani forged alliances with the very winds, granting them great magical powers, tremendous speed, or enormous strength. However, as the era of the djinn ended, many of its secrets faded from the common knowledge of the tribes.
One of the few bits that still remind of that era is the Path of the Dervish. Taking the nomadic nature of their tribes to the extreme, dervishes strive to attain unity with the winds and the storms in the Dance of the Winds. They no longer are considered part of a single tribe, and they travel far and wide to aid all the tribes in need. Many take this a step further and travel all of the world, seeking new steps for their dances in exchange for their aid. The dervishes of Sairundan learn to follow their whims without harming their surroundings, and shape the winds as the winds shape the dervish, expressing their soul in songs. When two dervishes meet, they are as likely to start a training fight/dance as to start singing together to share their stories.
Most tribes send the young people who seem to be promising dervishes to meet several other tribes, but a few actually send them into distant lands, where they are supposed to pick up new knowledge and as a preparation for their new life as a dervish.
Fighters and rangers are the most common classes to live the path of the dervish. A few ex-monks, bards or rogues might also follow this path, but the martial requirements often discourage them. Other classes usually lack either the martial or the artistic aptitude required for the dervishes.
Hit Dice: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a dervish of Sairundan, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Skills: Perform (Dance) 3 ranks, Perfom (Sing) 3 ranks, Tumble 3 ranks.
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Two-Weapon-Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (scimitar).
Alignment: Neutral good, chaotic good or chaotic neutral.
Special: Must be from Sairundan, or be accepted by a Sairundan tribe as one of their own. Must pass the Test of the Fifteen Winds.
Test of the Fifteen Winds: To be accepted as a dervish, the aspiring character must impress a number of existing dervishes of his talents as a dancer, singer and athlete. Five dervishes gather, and the character must perform seperately his skills Perform (Dance), Perform (Sing) and Tumble. If at least three of the dervishes are impressed, the character can join the ranks of the dervishes, otherwise he must wait a month before he can take the test again. While dervishes normally travel far and wide, the best chance to gather the five dervishes needed for this test is in Sairundan.

Class Skills
The dervish of Sairundan’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int modifier.
Code:
Level	Base	Fort Ref	Will	AC Special
	Attack	Save	Save	Save	Bonus
   	Bonus
1st	+1	+0 +2	+0	+1	Movement mastery, slashing blades, song of the storms united
2nd	+2	+0 +3	+0	+1	Fast movement +5 ft.
3rd	+3	+1 +3	+1	+1	Spring Attack, dervish dance 1
4th	+4	+1 +4	+1	+1	Djinni’s grace, songs of the blade
5th	+5	+1 +4	+1	+2	Fast movement +10 ft.
6th	+6	+2 +5	+2	+2	Wind’s fury, dervish dance 2
7th	+7	+2 +5	+2	+2	Djinni’s boon
8th	+8	+2 +6	+2	+2	Fast movement +15 ft.
9th	+9	+3 +6	+3	+3	Dervish dance 3
10th	+10	+3 +7	+3	+3	Djinni’s gift, storm’s fury
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the dervish of Sairundan prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dervishes of Sairundan gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
AC Bonus (Ex): A dervish of Sairundan gains this bonus to Armor Class as long as he is wearing no armor or light armor and not carrying a shield. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the dervish is flat-footed. He loses this bonus when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor heavier than light, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Song of the Storms United (Su): When a dervish is affected by a bardic music effect or a similar ability, the dervish may attempt a Perform (Sing) check (DC 15 + required ranks in Perform for that ability). If he succeeds, he picks up the song, and can affect other allies just like the bard, but using his dervish levels and bard levels for level-based effects. The dervish can only relay a song if he has enough ranks in Perform to use the ability if he were a bard. For example, a 10th level dervish affected by an inspire greatness effect could inspire greatness in one of his allies with asuccessful Perform check (DC 27). If the dervish also has 2 levels of bard, he can inspire greatness in two allies instead.
The following bardic abilities can be used with this ability: Countersong, Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness, Song of Freedom, Inspire Heroics. Other, similar abilities might be added to that list by the GM.
Movement Mastery (Ex): A dervish is so certain of his movements that he is unaffected by adverse conditions. When making a Jump, Perform (dance), or Tumble check, he may take 10 even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.
Slashing Blades: A dervish treats the scimitar as a light weapon (rather than a one-handed weapon) for all purposes, including fighting with two weapons.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a dervish gains an enhancement bonus to his speed. A dervish in any armor heavier than light or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this bonus.
Spring Attack: At 3rd level, a dervish gains the Spring Attack feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Dervish Dance (Ex): Beginning at third level, the dervish, may attempt to take an additional 5 foot step during a full attack by succeeding at a Perform (dance) check with a DC of 20. The dervish may not take two 5 ft steps in succession – they must be seperated by at least one attack.
Every three levels thereafter, the number of 5 foot steps the dervish can attempt to take increases by one, but the DC to succeed increases by 10. For example, a 6th level dervish could attempt to take two additional 5 foot steps during a full attack, the first requiring a DC 20 Perform check, the second requiring a DC 30 Perform check.
The dervish can not take 10 on the Perform check for this ability.
Djinni’s Grace: At 4th level, the dervish’s bond with the winds strengthens, granting him a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity.
Songs of the Blade (Sp): Upon attaining 4th level, the dervish gains the ability to dance with any slashing melee weapon and listen to its song once per day. From the song of the blade, the dervish can attempt to find out about any special abilities that the weapon possesses, as per the spell identify cast by a caster of the dervish’s class level. To use this ability, the dervish dances for 1 hour with the blade, and then must succeed at a Perform (Dance) check with a DC of 10 + the weapon’s caster level. If he succeeds, he gains insight into all magic properties of the weapon, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). If he fails by 9 or less, he receives no insight. If he fails by 10 or more, he receives false insight.
Just like identify, songs of the blade does not function when used on an artifact.
Songs of the Blade is the equivalent of a 1st level spell.
Wind’s Fury (Su): At 6th level, the dervish becomes one with the winds that guide his movements. He may add 1/2 his Dexterity bonus, rounded down, to the damage dealt by his melee attacks.
Djinni’s Boon: At 7th level, the dervish’s bond with the winds strengthens, granting him a +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma.
Djinni’s Gift: At 10th level, the dervish’s bond with the winds strengthens, granting him a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength.
Storm’s Fury (Su): At 10th level, the dervish literally becomes the winds that guide his movements. He may add his Dexterity bonus to the damage dealt by his melee attacks. This ability replaces Wind’s Fury.
 
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Knight Otu

First Post
A few points that were brought up on the other thread:

Regarding the AC Bonus, it is similar to a monks' AC bonus.
The monk receives a Wis bonus to AC, and an untyped bonus that slowly increases. I could easily see it made into a deflection bonus, though.

The Songs of the Storms United ability wording sounding clunky:
You're certainly not alone in thinking that it sounds clunky. I think so as well.
The idea is that the dervish can relay the powers of a beneficial bardic music effect as if he were creating it himself. In case of a countersong, as long as the dervish is within 30 feet of the performing bard, he can attempt the appropriate Perform check (DC 18, since countersong requires at least 3 ranks) to allow allies within 30 feet of himself benefit from countersong, but using the dervish's Perform check result.
If the bardic music ability requires a target, the bard would have to target the dervish to allow the dervish to use this ability.
Does that help a bit?
That said, there are two things I might change: For one, reviewing the Song of Freedom, it does not make too much sense to be able to be relayed this way. Also, for abilities that depend on the bard's Perform check result (only countersong currently, but feats and PrCs might introduce more), the dervish propably should not be able to get a better result.

The movement mastery ability might be moved to a higher level (5th or 6th), and the Songs of the Blade ability might move down in level instead.

Regarding the flavor of the Songs of the Blade ability:
It is meant to illustrate the love the Sairundani, and especially the dervishes, have for blades, song and dance beyond combat. The dervish usually dances along with his scimitars, and picks up subtle differences between weapons. This ability is a supernatural extension of that.
I could see it being limited to scimitars, or at least sword-like weapons.

Also, it is of course based on the 3.5 version of identify. :)
 



Knight Otu

First Post
Nice idea, but I think the combat abilities are more or less okay as they are. :p

GnomeWorks mentioned the idea of a Bardic Knowledge ability limited to weapons, however...
 

Knight Otu

First Post
Dervish of Sairundan, v. 2
Be as the wind, listen to the storm, and care for the whims of your spirits as well as others. This is the the Path of the Dervish.
Sairundan, a land ruled by a loose federation of tribes, was supposedly founded by several djinn, who passed their knowledge and their blood to the mortals under their care. The legends of these times tell that many Sairundani forged alliances with the very winds, granting them great magical powers, tremendous speed, or enormous strength. However, as the era of the djinn ended, many of its secrets faded from the common knowledge of the tribes.
One of the few bits that still remind of that era is the Path of the Dervish. Taking the nomadic nature of their tribes to the extreme, dervishes strive to attain unity with the winds and the storms in the Dance of the Winds. They no longer are considered part of a single tribe, and they travel far and wide to aid all the tribes in need. Many take this a step further and travel all of the world, seeking new steps for their dances in exchange for their aid. The dervishes of Sairundan learn to follow their whims without harming their surroundings, and shape the winds as the winds shape the dervish, expressing their soul in songs. When two dervishes meet, they are as likely to start a training fight/dance as to start singing together to share their stories.
Most tribes send the young people who seem to be promising dervishes to meet several other tribes, but a few actually send them into distant lands, where they are supposed to pick up new knowledge and as a preparation for their new life as a dervish.
Fighters and rangers are the most common classes to live the path of the dervish. A few ex-monks, bards or rogues might also follow this path, but the martial requirements often discourage them. Other classes usually lack either the martial or the artistic aptitude required for the dervishes.
Hit Dice: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a dervish of Sairundan, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Skills: Perform (Dance) 3 ranks, Perfom (Sing) 3 ranks, Tumble 3 ranks.
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Two-Weapon-Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (scimitar).
Alignment: Neutral good, chaotic good or chaotic neutral.
Special: Must be from Sairundan, or be accepted by a Sairundan tribe as one of their own. Must pass the Test of the Fifteen Winds.
Test of the Fifteen Winds: To be accepted as a dervish, the aspiring character must impress a number of existing dervishes of his talents as a dancer, singer and athlete. Five dervishes gather, and the character must perform seperately his skills Perform (Dance), Perform (Sing) and Tumble. If at least three of the dervishes are impressed, the character can join the ranks of the dervishes, otherwise he must wait a month before he can take the test again. While dervishes normally travel far and wide, the best chance to gather the five dervishes needed for this test is in Sairundan.

Class Skills
The dervish of Sairundan’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int modifier.
Code:
 Level	Base	Fort Ref	Will	AC Special
 	Attack	Save	Save	Save	Bonus
  	Bonus
 1st	+1	+0 +2	+0	+1    Slashing blades, song of the storms united, songs of the blade
 2nd	+2	+0 +3	+0	+1	Fast movement +5 ft.
 3rd	+3	+1 +3	+1	+1	Spring Attack, dervish dance 1
 4th	+4	+1 +4	+1	+1	Djinni’s grace, movement mastery
 5th	+5	+1 +4	+1	+2	Fast movement +10 ft.
 6th	+6	+2 +5	+2	+2	Wind’s fury, dervish dance 2
 7th	+7	+2 +5	+2	+2	Djinni’s boon
 8th	+8	+2 +6	+2	+2	Fast movement +15 ft.
 9th	+9	+3 +6	+3	+3	Dervish dance 3
 10th	+10	+3 +7	+3	+3	Djinni’s gift, storm’s fury
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the dervish of Sairundan prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dervishes of Sairundan gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
AC Bonus (Ex): A dervish of Sairundan gains this bonus to Armor Class as long as he is wearing no armor or light armor and not carrying a shield. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the dervish is flat-footed. He loses this bonus when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor heavier than light, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Song of the Storms United (Su): When a dervish is affected by a bardic music effect or a similar ability, the dervish may attempt a Perform (Sing) check (DC 15 + required ranks in Perform for that ability). If he succeeds, he picks up the song, duplicating its effects, and can affect other allies just like the bard, but using his dervish levels and bard levels for level-based effects. The dervish can only relay a song if he has enough ranks in Perform to use the ability if he were a bard. For example, a 10th level dervish affected by an inspire greatness effect could inspire greatness in one of his allies with asuccessful Perform check (DC 27). If the dervish also has 2 levels of bard, he can inspire greatness in two allies instead.
For bardic music where the bard's Perform check result affects the effectiveness (such as countersong), the Perform check result of the dervish can be no higher than that of the bard.
The following bardic abilities can be used with this ability: Countersong, Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroics. Other, similar abilities might be added to that list by the GM.
Slashing Blades: A dervish treats the scimitar as a light weapon (rather than a one-handed weapon) for all purposes, including fighting with two weapons.
Songs of the Blade (Sp): At 1st level, the dervish gains the ability to dance with any slashing melee weapon and listen to its song once per day. From the song of the blade, the dervish can attempt to find out about any special abilities that the weapon possesses, as per the spell identify cast by a caster of the dervish’s class level. To use this ability, the dervish dances for 1 hour with the blade, and then must succeed at a Perform (Dance) check with a DC of 10 + the weapon’s caster level. If he succeeds, he gains insight into all magic properties of the weapon, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). If he fails by 9 or less, he receives no insight. If he fails by 10 or more, he receives false insight.
Just like identify, songs of the blade does not function when used on an artifact. Songs of the Blade is the equivalent of a 1st level spell.
The dervish cannot take 10 on the Perform check for this ability.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a dervish gains an enhancement bonus to his speed. A dervish in any armor heavier than light or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this bonus.
Spring Attack: At 3rd level, a dervish gains the Spring Attack feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Dervish Dance (Ex): Beginning at third level, the dervish, may attempt to take an additional 5 foot step during a full attack by succeeding at a Perform (dance) check with a DC of 20. The dervish may not take two 5 ft steps in succession – they must be seperated by at least one attack.
Every three levels thereafter, the number of 5 foot steps the dervish can attempt to take increases by one, but the DC to succeed increases by 10. For example, a 6th level dervish could attempt to take two additional 5 foot steps during a full attack, the first requiring a DC 20 Perform check, the second requiring a DC 30 Perform check.
The dervish can not take 10 on the Perform check for this ability.
Djinni’s Grace: At 4th level, the dervish’s bond with the winds strengthens, granting him a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity.
Movement Mastery (Ex): Starting at 4th level, the dervish is so certain of his movements that he is unaffected by adverse conditions. When making a Jump, Perform (dance), or Tumble check, he may take 10 even if stress and distraction would normally prevent him from doing so.
Wind’s Fury (Su): At 6th level, the dervish becomes one with the winds that guide his movements. He may add 1/2 his Dexterity bonus, rounded down, to the damage dealt by his melee attacks.
Djinni’s Boon: At 7th level, the dervish’s bond with the winds strengthens, granting him a +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma.
Djinni’s Gift: At 10th level, the dervish’s bond with the winds strengthens, granting him a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength.
Storm’s Fury (Su): At 10th level, the dervish literally becomes the winds that guide his movements. He may add his Dexterity bonus to the damage dealt by his melee attacks. This ability replaces Wind’s Fury.
 


I'd say it looks roughly balanced, but the vast majority of the class's power comes from Wind's Fury and Storm's Fury, the latter of which is huge. I worry that most of the class's most interesting and unusual benefits -- the songs, identification, and (nerfed) dervish dance -- won't come into play all that often (nor will the enhancement bonuses, unless magical items are very rare in your game), leaving the class to function like a relatively straightforward melee fighter who does far more damage with his scimitars than anyone has a right to, and can move and avoid blows a bit more effectively than he'd otherwise be able to.

To keep the class interesting, I'd try to find a happy medium between your version of the dervish dance and the very, very powerful version in CW. The CW ability is very nifty (if, arguably, broken) because it lets you more more than five feet at a time and still make a full attack, letting you do two very nifty things: bring more than one weapon to bear against an opponent who was more than five feet away from you when you started your action (which is overcomes one of the major weaknesses of the two-weapon style), and attack an opponent multiple times before moving away from him (which is a huge advantage in any strictly melee exchange). Your version lets you do neither of these things: it's mainly useful for the very specialized purpose of distributing a full attack among a group of enemies who are clumped together but not surrounding you. It's probably going to be fairly unusual to be fighting enemies in that sort of configuration, and I wonder whether the enemies in question often be relatively harmless mooks. (Note that the ability as written seems to allow players to attack the air if they want to take consecutive five-foot steps -- I could, in theory, unleash nearly all of a full attack against some nasty beast with multiple attacks, take my standard five-foot step, use my last, weak attack that would probably miss anyway to attack the air, and then use dervish dance to take another step, preventing that opponent from taking a five-foot step to close for a reciprocal full attack of his own. Is this a loophole you'd want to plug?)

More generally, I think the class is balanced as written, but a bit lopsided (since the "fury" abilities don't come until high levels) and more boring than it needs to be -- mainly because most of it's power comes from storm's fury. I'd strongly consider eliminating storm's fury -- wind's fury is still quite good, and you may want to eliminate that, too, in favor of an arguably weaker but more flavorful ability that let the dervish add (all of) their Charisma bonus, rather than (half of) their Dexterity bonus, to their melee damage. (I'd also consider moving this to some earlier level -- perhaps 4th or so? -- since it seems as though it would be one of the signature abilities of the class.)

To compensate for the elimination of storm's fury, I'd (a) find some way to work in more abilities that boost genuinely mobile two-weapon combat (the most interesting mechanical innovation of the CW version) -- perhaps a (high-level) ability that allowed you to make one attack with each of your weapons during a spring attack -- and (b) would seriously consider adding the CW version's "thousand cuts" ability at 10th level.
 
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Knight Otu

First Post
Thanks for the input. I hope you don't mind me copying it over to the other thread?

Storm's Fury, the latter of which is huge.
Which is the reason I put it as the tenth level ability. As I said, I am wary about it's power level.

A good analysis of Dervish Dance, though I think it might seea bit more use than that. Personally, I consider the CW version to be broken, so I'd be

Note that the ability as written seems to allow players to attack the air if they want to take consecutive five-foot steps
That's certainly not the intention. :D But I believe glossary definition of [GLOSSARY]attack[/GLOSSARY] implies that it is directed against an opponent.

I'm not quite sure if using Charisma is more flavorful than Dexterity, but it is certainly not less flavorful.

A good point about doing a bit more for dual-wielding.
A thousand cuts, though, I'm not quite convinced that it fits with this version...
 

Quickleaf

Legend
origin of the name dervish

Well, I'm taking a different approach from the other comments. Mine have to do with the flavor, not the mechanics. You've got some great combat abilities in there, but the dervish are you are presenting him is extaordinarily limited!
Historically, dervishes were branches/sects of Sufism (the Sufism was Islamic mysticism). Many think they came from central asia, though their true origins remain a mystery. While they had been in Iran and Afghanistan (Persia) for many years, they came into prominence in the early part of the 13th century, during the time of Jellaludin al-Rumi (a wonderful poet). Their ideas caused considerable unrest in the political field; dervishes were radicals, advocating massive changes in rulership, education, and especially spirituality. While there are rare incidences of Sufis being drawn into armed conflit, that is the exception to the norm!

I would suggest you do some research into this rich tradition; after all, you can only gain a heap of great ideas for your campaign! ;)
 

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