LOTR Question - Orcs

In LOTR orcs are perversions of elves. This got me wondering after reading a couple sections of the Trilogy.

Are LOTR Orcs immortal like elves? There are a couple parts of the book where they two Orcs are talking and it suggests that at least one of them was at the final siege when Sauron was defeated and lost the ring.
 

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hong

WotC's bitch
It depends.

From the Tolkien Less Frequently Asked Questions list <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tolkien/lessfaq/part1/>:


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ENEMIES

1) What was the origin of the Orcs?

      A fundamental concept for Tolkien (and the other Inklings) was that Evil 
  cannot create, only corrupt (the Boethian, as opposed to the Manichean, 
  concept of evil).  In Letter 153 he explained that to a first approximation, 
  Treebeard was wrong ("Trolls are only counterfeits, made by the Enemy in the
  Great Darkness, in mockery of Ents, as Orcs were of Elves." TT, p. 89) and 
  Frodo was right ("The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make:
  not real new things of its own.  I don't think it gave life to Orcs, it only
  ruined them and twisted them ..." RK, p. 190).  (Tolkien: "Treebeard is a 
  *character* in my story, not me; and though he has a great memory and some 
  earthy wisdom, he is not one of the Wise, and there is quite a lot he does 
  not know or understand." Letters, p. 190;  "Suffering and experience (and 
  possibly the Ring itself) gave Frodo more insight ..." Letters, p. 191.)
  ("To the first approximation" [above] because in that same letter Tolkien 
  made some subtle distinctions between "creating" and "making", which cannot 
  be gone into here.)  

      Tolkien stated explicitly in that letter (and several other places) that 
  the Orcs are indeed "a race of rational incarnate creatures, though horribly 
  corrupted".  Also that "In the legends of the Elder Days it is suggested that
  the Diabolus subjugated and corrupted some of the earliest Elves, before they
  had ever heard of the 'gods', let alone of God." (Letters, p. 191).  In fact,
  _The Silmarillion_ does state that Orcs were Avari (Dark Elves) captured by
  Morgoth (p. 50, 94), though strictly speaking, the idea is presented as the
  best guess of the Eldar, no more.  Some have rejected the statements on those
  grounds,  that the Elvish compilers of _The Silmarillion_ didn't actually 
  *know* the truth but were merely speculating.  But since Tolkien himself, 
  speaking as author and sub-creator, more-or-less verified this idea, it's 
  probably safe to accept it, as far as it goes.

      It has been widely noted that this conception leaves several questions 
  unresolved.  1) Re: procreation, _The Silmarillion_ says that "the Orcs had 
  life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Iluvatar" (p. 50), 
  but nevertheless people continue to raise questions.  For one thing, there 
  was never any hint that female Orcs exist (there were two apparent references 
  to Orc children, but both were from _The Hobbit_ , and therefore may be 
  considered suspect).  2) There is the question of why, if Orcs were corrupted 
  Elves, their offspring would also be Orcs (rather than Elves -- a somewhat 
  horrifying thought).  This question leads to discussions of brainwashing vs. 
  genetics, which are not altogether appropriate to the world of Middle-earth.
  3) Finally there is the question of whether Orcs, being fundamentally Elves,
  go to the Halls of Mandos when they are slain, and whether, like Elves, they
  are reincarnated.  (This last would explain how they managed to replenish 
  their numbers so quickly all the time.)  There is also some reason to think 
  that Orcs, like Elves, are immortal.  (Gorbag and Shagrat, during the conver-
  sation which Sam overheard, mention the "Great Seige", which presumably 
  refers to the Last Alliance; it is possible to interpret this reference to 
  mean that they were there and actually remembered it themselves.)
 
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I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
SWEET!! :)

Of course, the *forward-thinking* dwarven women would shave them to distance themselves from the obvious phallic symbolism of the traditional helmet-and-shield motif, designed to enhance dwarven patriarchy.


.....and probably put them on elves, because those prissy tree-huggers need a bit of cojones, if ya ask me. :)
 




Aaron L

Hero
I would say that Tolkien orcs are immortal, based on the evidence and their origin. I would also say that they procreate normally. They were elves in the beginning that were twisted and corrupted, but don't forget that they were corrupted by a god, and made into something different than the elves from which they came. Alterations made by a god could certainly have genetic effects that could be passed onto offspring.

Now about going to the Halls of Mandos when they die, I 'm not sure. I would say they go to another place, and then they are reincarnated as new orcs.
 
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