Drowned in MMIII: CR 8 - What the?

Herremann the Wise · Dec 8, 2004

I started a similar thread that was far more comprehensive than this one but I thought a simpler thread would be more suitable for this particular issue - thank you for those who responded to that former thread.

Does anyone know if there has been errata for the Challenge Rating of the Drowned in MMIII? I'm not too sure if I can post further details or not so I shall err on the side of caution. In essence though, CR 8 for a 20HD undead, Hide +20, with a permanent 30' Miasma-like supernatural ability around it would seem a little off.
Any help on a more appropriate CR would be appreciated.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

PS: Can I post the details of the Drowned here?

frankthedm · Dec 8, 2004

Herremann the Wise said:
PS: Can I post the details of the Drowned here?

I would assume the details of the special ability in question should be postable under fair use, but i have dim veiws of copyreich laws.

I say its a bit strong for cr 8

Scharlata · Dec 8, 2004

Herremann the Wise said:
[...]Does anyone know if there has been errata for the Challenge Rating of the Drowned in MMIII? I'm not too sure if I can post further details or not so I shall err on the side of caution. In essence though, CR 8 for a 20HD undead, Hide +20, with a permanent 30' Miasma-like supernatural ability around it would seem a little off.[...]

Hi!
Not that I'm aware of an official erratum for the Drowned.
Compare it to the Entombed's Immure (Su) ability from Frostburn [page 129]. The Entombed only has 16d12 and a CR of 10, and the Immure ability (probably?) only gets one foe out of combat. OTOH, everybody could just leave the 30 ft. radius of the Drowned and shoot the thing to death.

Kind regards

Herremann the Wise · Dec 8, 2004

frankthedm said:
I would assume the details of the special ability in question should be postable under fair use, but i have dim veiws of copyreich laws.

I say its a bit strong for cr 8

I will remove the following if it is not considered fair use.

The special ability is as follows:

Drowning Aura (Su): A drowned gives off a 30-foot-radius emanation of suffocating drowning, imbuing its surroundings with a watery glint and deadly threat for creatures that breathe. All breathing creatures within 30 feet of a drowned are treated as if beneath water in terms of being able to breathe. The drowning aura accelerates the process of drowning.
Normally a creature can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to twice its constitution score before it begins to drown. Within the drowning aura, a creature can only hold its breath if it makes a DC 10 Constitution check every round. Each round, the DC increases by 1. When the character fails its constitution check, it begins to drown. In the first round, it falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, it drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round if still in the drowning aura, it drowns.

As you can see, this is fairly nasty.
In the game, I ruled that multiple auras did not represent multiple con checks and I also ruled that the 0 hit points was nonlethal damage, otherwise it would be too easy for the creature to take a swing at an unconscious victim killing them instantly.
All in all though, CR 8 seems woefully inadequate. Suggestions?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

coyote6 · Dec 8, 2004

Yeah, the drowned got some coverage when MM3 first came out (mainly in threads on the General forum, IIRC).

I would definitely let water breathing (the spell, similar effects, natural abilities, etc.) protect against the aura (which is implied by "treated as if beneath water in terms of being able to breathe", but since a simple "creatures that can breathe underwater are unaffected" would be shorter, simpler, and clearer, one wonders).

It would also be Really Nice if you'd let spellcasters choke out a water breathing spell or command word while inside the aura (probably with a Concentration check). That's probably not strictly rules-legal, but otherwise, any group without an immediate way to retreat and without a Silent water breathing is going to be swimming with the fishes real quick.

If the PCs can get out of the aura, or defend (via water breathing) against it, then it's maybe not too bad. OTOH, stick 'em in a 40 foot across cavern, and let the drowned be between them and the exit -- you could easily see a great many casualties (especially if any spellcasters with water breathing prepared fail that first Con check).

Even if you're generous in allowing characters to speak while drowning, I think it's probably not CR 8.

Garnfellow · Dec 8, 2004

First, your quote is easily within fair use, so no worries about that.

Second, this CR does seem really very wacky -- especially since the ability keys off a Con check rather than a Fort save.

My guess is that CR 8 is either a plain old typo (and these gremlins appear to be legion in the MMIII) or else the designers are relying too heavily on meta-gaming logic -- the moment players see a big-assed, moist undead they pull back and rely on ranged attacks. Which would be a terrible assumption.

I have a hunch that a more reasonable CR would be in the 10-12 range.