Babylonian/Judeo-Christian Mythology

Upper_Krust · Apr 23, 2002

Hi there!

Cyronax said:
Also to repeat myself from before, does anyone plan on doing a Deities & Demigods writeup of any of the gods from said pantheons? Tiamat and Bahumat aside of course....

I will be detailing the Babylo-Sumerian and Persian Pantheons shortly after Deities & Demigods arrives - I still haven't received my copy from Amazon.co.uk

I already have the Babylo-Sumerian Pantheon outlined (22 gods) and I am reworking the structure of the Persian Pantheon at the moment. I also have the Celtic; Indian and Aztec Pantheons lying in wait.

Incidently I do actually have alternate versions of Tiamat and Bahamut - think of the ones in D&Dg as Avatars.

Cyronax · Apr 23, 2002

Upper_Krust said:
I will be detailing the Babylo-Sumerian and Persian Pantheons shortly after Deities & Demigods arrives - I still haven't received my copy from Amazon.co.uk

I already have the Babylo-Sumerian Pantheon outlined (22 gods) and I am reworking the structure of the Persian Pantheon at the moment. I also have the Celtic; Indian and Aztec Pantheons lying in wait.

Incidently I do actually have alternate versions of Tiamat and Bahamut - think of the ones in D&Dg as Avatars.

I'd any work you've done on the subject! Given the much more prominent position Tiamat plays in Babylo-Sumerian lore, I could well imagine that her lesser deity stats, that being her actual stats from Deities and Demigods (not her printed avatar stats), could represent Tiamat's very powerful avatar, while a new intermediate or greater deity stat block could be written up for her.

Incidentally, I've noticed from the scant reading I've done on the subject that Bahumat seems to be very minor to these ancient pantheons. I could understand how his role as the "good dragon god" could be inflated as a counterweight to Tiamat's influence (typical D&D balancing logic), but I'm interested in finding out more about his actual place in the Babylo-Sumerian pantheon. My knowledge is not very extensive there.

C.I.D.

Upper_Krust · Apr 23, 2002

Hello again!

Cyronax said:
I'd any work you've done on the subject!

I assume you mean you would like to see it..?

Cyronax said:
Given the much more prominent position Tiamat plays in Babylo-Sumerian lore, I could well imagine that her lesser deity stats, that being her actual stats from Deities and Demigods (not her printed avatar stats), could represent Tiamat's very powerful avatar, while a new intermediate or greater deity stat block could be written up for her.

Absolutely. Given that Anu (obviously the Divine Rank 19 Pantheon Head) was afraid to face Tiamat; a Divine Rank of 10 (as per D&Dg) would seem to suggest a mere Avatar.

Cyronax said:
Incidentally, I've noticed from the scant reading I've done on the subject that Bahumat seems to be very minor to these ancient pantheons. I could understand how his role as the "good dragon god" could be inflated as a counterweight to Tiamat's influence (typical D&D balancing logic), but I'm interested in finding out more about his actual place in the Babylo-Sumerian pantheon. My knowledge is not very extensive there.

Bahamut is of Persian origins, he has nothing to do with the Babylo-Sumerian Mythos.

If I recall correctly he was a huge fish like beast upon which the cosmos sat. Bahamut himself actually balanced on the back of 'Kujata' the Primeval Bull. So he was never necessarily 'good' or a dragon; or technically even a god.

The word 'Bahamut' was perverted into 'Behemoth' by the Bible.

The relationship between Bahamut and Tiamat (in D&D) was probably inspired by the biblical Behemoth and Leviathan monsters.

I'll have to ask Gary next time I email him.

Wicht · Apr 23, 2002

Upper_Krust said:
The word 'Bahamut' was perverted into 'Behemoth' by the Bible.

How sure are you of this? It would be interesting if true, but Behemoth is an actual hebrew word, the plural of Behema which means cattle or implies a grazing animal. While the book of Job uses it to describe a very large creature, obviously not a cow, the fact that the creature described eats grass makes it likely the word was being used according to proper hebrew grammar.

Upper_Krust · Apr 23, 2002

Hi Wicht!

Wicht said:
How sure are you of this? It would be interesting if true, but Behemoth is an actual hebrew word, the plural of Behema which means cattle or implies a grazing animal. While the book of Job uses it to describe a very large creature, obviously not a cow, the fact that the creature described eats grass makes it likely the word was being used according to proper hebrew grammar.

As sure as you can be of any mythology. I have read the above information in more than one source.

Its entirely plausible that Behemoth is a marriage of Behema and Bahamut!

Wicht · Apr 23, 2002

Upper_Krust said:
Its entirely plausible that Behemoth is a marriage of Behema and Bahamut!

It would not be a true "marriage" as Behemoth is already a correct form of the word and not an invention for a single passage. But I will grant that it might be used in Job because it sounds similar to Bahamut. However, one other difficulty with that theory, is that the Behemoth of Job is not presented as a Mythical creature but as an animal of the natural world.

Babylonian/Judeo-Christian Mythology

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Wicht

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