Darkness & Dread

Asmor · Dec 23, 2004

Hey all, just getting back into things... After my last group fell apart D&D sorta strayed from my mind since I didn't feel like DMing and I don't know anyone who would.

But I'm starting to get the hankerin' again and am gonna start a game soon. Thankfully, I happened to check this site the week FFG was having their warehouse clearing sale and picked up 7 of the Legends & Lairs books, including Darkness & Dread, which so far I really really like. I absolutely love the profession classes given, they're varied and simple and, frankly, I think they'd work awesome for any low power game.

So I'm wondering, has anyone run a game using Darkness & Dread? How about a non-horror game using the classes provided instead of normal classes? Does everything seem pretty balanced normally?

Incidentally, I also got: Elemental Lore, Traps & Treachery II (already had the first), Monster's Handbook, Cityworks, Dungeoncraft and Portals & Planes. Haven't cracked any of them yet, but anyone have any thoughts?

Greatwyrm · Dec 23, 2004

I'm pretty happy with picking up Darkness & Dread in the sale, too. The classes are well done and fit the genre well. The madness and fear mechanics are solid.

My only complaint is I don't think black magic was addressed in enough detail. But, since it's probably mainly for NPCs, you can probably fudge it all you need.

spider_minion · Dec 23, 2004

I got Darkness and Dread recently after it was released, and had run a few sessions with it. I liked the classes in the book, but overall I though they we're just too weak for what I wanted to do. Being the homebrewer that I am, I made my own classes and feats. The classes are like weaker versions of the core, but without all the whiz-bang powers that would make the game too magical. I can post them if you're interested.

My players simply LOVED the insanity rules. They were essentially in a race to see who could rack up the most insanity points as possible. Some were disappointed when their mental maladies were really dabilitating . . . I had to remind them that they shouldn't want to go insane. The players very much enjoyed the campaign, but it never really became horror. It was still quite fun.

Some of the chapters arn't as developed as they could be. I'm thinking of the books and tomes, dark magic, and monsters. The author, Mike Mearls, was actually disappointed with the end product for this reason. Still love the book though.

Relics & Rituals II and Creature Collection II have lots of stuff ideal for a dark fantasy campaign. Green Ronin's The Psychic's Handbook has a neat low-powered psionic system that fit perfectly into my campaign as well. The first two books (expecially CCII) aided me a good deal.

Wraith Form · Dec 23, 2004

I liked the book.

I have *not* used it in actual game play (so please keep that in mind), but that didn't stop me from buying and/or reading it.

I enjoyed the classes it presented. If you look at the original (non-d20) Call of Cthulhu, many of those investigator "classes" were underpowered compared to a D&D type game. That's part of the point--the classes you can choose from are the everyman, the common guy/gal...they're not Kirk & Spock, they're the Red Shirts. Horror and terror is that much more horrible & terrible when you're not increasing by a d10 every level and have a +13 vorpal Feather of Tickling of Doom of the Ancients of Death. How can you experience terror when you're lopping the heads off demons before breakfast? Darkness & Dread's "hero-lite" class system is different thus--you can be a hero, just not one that's a superhuman. That doesn't mean the classes aren't non-powered, mind you.

A much more "realistic" (as opposed to "heroic"), and totally optional, way of calculating hit points, wounds & damage is supplied. Skills & Feats for these underpowered classes are also provided. Many can be ported directly in from the PHB, but the new ones focus on a horror-themed campaign.

Fear/horror/madness/insanity has been done many times (even within d20): Ravenloft, CoC (WotC version), Unearthed Arcana--or is that Arcana Unearthed?, Grim tales, etc etc. Darkness & Dread offers the same. I haven't bothered to do a ~compare & contrast~ on the different rule sets for fear/madness, but they can't be all that much different from book to book I wouldn't think. Darkness & Dread also includes it's own set of fear/madness rules.

It also provides a DM's section for running a terror-based game and a sample town to use, with NPCs supplied.
Not to shabby for $5.....!

Greatwyrm · Dec 24, 2004

spider_minion said:
Some of the chapters arn't as developed as they could be. I'm thinking of the books and tomes, dark magic, and monsters. The author, Mike Mearls, was actually disappointed with the end product for this reason. Still love the book though.

Now that he's working with Monte Cook, maybe we'll get a horror/dark-fantasy one-off from Malhavoc Press.

Crothian · Dec 24, 2004

I really like the book. I've yet to be abler to use anything in it since I just got it last week, but for a book I knew next to nothing about it really impressed me.

Desdichado · Dec 24, 2004

I should point out this thread I started when the book was first released. Mearls also added to the discussion there somewhat.

mearls · Dec 24, 2004

Greatwyrm said:
Now that he's working with Monte Cook, maybe we'll get a horror/dark-fantasy one-off from Malhavoc Press.

It isn't out of the question, but right now it isn't on my schedule. Darkness & Dread was one of those books that I wish I had another 128 pages to really do it right.

spider_minion - your post made my day. Heck, my week! Glad your players liked the insanity rules.

Gothmog · Dec 24, 2004

Darkness & Dread has been one of my favorite Legends and Lairs books. I really liked the lower powered classes (we used them for a brief Victorian-era horror game), but what I really love are the fear and madness rules, and the research rules. Its odd- like Mike Mearls wrote a book specifically for my homebrew dark fantasy campaign! I'm always sending PCs to research topics, places, or creatures in game, and while the CoC sanity rules are pretty good, they are more clinical and modern in their outlook. The CoC rules work great for a 1920s-modern era game, but seem somewhat jarring in a pre 1900's era game. My players loved the madness rules, and have truly came to dread fear checks! After seeing what what Mike Mearls has said in the past, I would have LOVED for this book to have 256 pages! Dark/horror fantasy is an area that has largely been glossed over in d20 (and RPGs in general), and a general tookit for use in such worlds rather than a specific campaign setting is a very welcome addition.

DMH · Dec 24, 2004

I agree that the godlings, black magic, research rules (should have been in CoC), and health are useful and interesting. I like the classes in CoC d20, though the ones in D&D have ideas that can be incorporated.

The sanity rules however aren't useful, but that is because I have the Book of Broken Dreams from Bloodstone. It is an extremely in depth look at stress and sanity for d20.