How strong is Aquaman?

WizarDru · Dec 31, 2004

Cthulhudrew said:
In any case, it's hard to gauge Marvel vs. DC characters, as on average, DC characters are much more powerful than Marvel characters. That has always been the case, and in fact, is one of the reasons Marvel comics were created in the first place, as their emphasis was to create more "believable" and "like human" characters, as opposed to legendary beings.

Ha! Maybe in 1964, that was even true. By the 70s, that was all out the door. I mean, have you seen how many beings wield Cosmic Power, these days?

The truth is that Aquaman is as strong as the current writer wants him to be, and can survive out of water in the same way. The problem is that many writers never know what to do with him, since he is more of a specialist. In a lot of ways, he was a victim of power creep. Consider, for example, a character like the Angel, from the X-men. His big power is....flight. Yeah, not exactly thrilling stuff, these days. So, like Aquaman, they buffed him out, in several ways. He becomes amazingly manueverable (90 deg. turns), very fast and has the ability to anticipate and perceive spatial relationships far beyond a normal person, and his fabulouse personal wealth. Still not enough, so then Apocalpyse gets him and turns Archangel, and he gets ranged attacks and still more powers. Then they scale him back a little, and so on, as every new writer gets him.

Aquaman's the same way. His biggest personal asset has always been his kingship, which was the source of lots of really excellent material in the late '60s/early 70s, when he had Neal Adams for his artist, and some really trippy stories running. Then he got cancelled (like many of DC's big heroes) and then came back in the 80s/90s, getting reworked several times, getting killed, disappearing, getting rebooted, and so on and so forth.

The animated versions are probably my second favorite version, behind Peter David's iteration. The 60's Adams version is pretty cool, too.

And like Seanbaby points out, prior to the character reboots of the 80s, Superman made everyone redundant.

Klaus · Dec 31, 2004

I like the cartoon explanation for Arthur losing his hand better than the comics' (A bad guy named Carybdis plunged Aquaman's hand into a river full of piranha... Wait! Isn't Aquaman capable of withstanding the pressure at the ocean floor?!?)

Since then Aquaman had a harpoon installed that he could mentally shoot out (it had a trailing cord). The harpoon then got changed into a cybernetic hand that could change into a harpoon. Then comes Obsidian Age (urk!), and Aquaman is booted off Atlantis for it. He is cursed so that marine creatures automatically attack him, and he has to flee the ocean (urk!!). He is then visited by the Lady of the Lake and is appointed the Waterbearer of the planet, capable of chanelling the Secret Sea (some mystical mumbo-jumbo) through his newfound water-hand (urk!!!).

More recently the mystical stuff has been scaled back a bit. In the newest direction, an earthquake sinks most of San Diego, which is renamed Sub Diego (urk!!!!). Thousands die, but some inexplicably develop the ability to breathe underwater, and Aquaman now has to play sheriff in this subaquatic No Man's Land.

And he's no longer attacked by fish again.

My favorite Aquaman? A mix of the cartoon version, the Grant Morrison version and the Paul Dini version from JLA: Liberty & Justice.

WizarDru · Dec 31, 2004

Wow.

I knew there was a reason I'd stopped buying comics on a regular basis...and that seems to have summed it all up, right there. Yikes.

Villano · Dec 31, 2004

Cthulhudrew said:
Aquaman should definitely be stronger than Spider-Man. Most estimates I've seen place him in the 60 ton range, while Spidey is only in the 10 ton range. He's definitely stronger than Wolvie, but not as strong as Namor.

In any case, it's hard to gauge Marvel vs. DC characters, as on average, DC characters are much more powerful than Marvel characters. That has always been the case, and in fact, is one of the reasons Marvel comics were created in the first place, as their emphasis was to create more "believable" and "like human" characters, as opposed to legendary beings.

Marvel has always tried to define the powers of their characters. Barring a few stories over the years, they tend to be consistent. DC, otoh, is very vague. I doubt that most writers or editors could agree on what their characters can do.

With Aquaman, half the time he's portrayed as Spider-Man level or less. The other half, he's ripping open subs and dragging beached whales back into the ocean. The same is true of his invulnerablity. He'll survive beatings by guys like Darkseid and getting zapped by lasers, but will get dropped by a handgun bullet to the leg or a baseball bat to the back of the head.

Klaus said:
Then comes Obsidian Age (urk!), and Aquaman is booted off Atlantis for it. He is cursed so that marine creatures automatically attack him, and he has to flee the ocean (urk!!). He is then visited by the Lady of the Lake and is appointed the Waterbearer of the planet, capable of chanelling the Secret Sea (some mystical mumbo-jumbo) through his newfound water-hand (urk!!!).

If I need to remind myself why I stopped collecting JLA, I'll come back and reread that.

Viking Bastard · Dec 31, 2004

Hey, Kurt Busiek just took over JLA. The dark times of Joe Kelly are over!

Klaus · Dec 31, 2004

And yay for that!

Joe Kelly had potential, but he bled too much real-world issues into his comics (like when he wasted an entire issue to a "should we make a preemptive strike" dream argument between Superman and President Lex) and had some thoroughly uncharacteristic moments (Batman + Wonder Woman?).

I also fault every writer responsible for Our Worlds At War.

And Ed McGuiness crafted THE most stoopid look for Imperiex (who had a stoopid name to boot).

And this coming from someone who actually likes the Parallax = Ancient Embodiment of Yellow Fear Energy...

And while I'm ranting (wow! my first rant!), Identity Crisis was gratuitous and a waste!

>phew!<

... carry on.

Cthulhudrew · Dec 31, 2004

JoeGKushner said:
I know the water hand is tied into some new story arc their going into.

He got the water hand from the Lady of the Lake after being exiled from Atlantis and having his harpoon hand destroyed. There was some sort of change involving him not being able to communicate with saltwater animals or regain his strength in saltwater (only freshwater, after getting the hand), but that may have changed.

Has anything signifigant changed since then?

The only thing I'm aware of is that San Diego sank into the sea and is now under Aquaman's protection as Sub Diego.

Villano · Dec 31, 2004

Klaus said:
Joe Kelly had potential, but he bled too much real-world issues into his comics (like when he wasted an entire issue to a "should we make a preemptive strike" dream argument between Superman and President Lex) and had some thoroughly uncharacteristic moments (Batman + Wonder Woman?).

Regardless of the political stuff, the fact that he created some kind of "What If?" machine and wasted time with imaginary stories is enough reason to hate Joe Kelly's run on the book.

Cthulhudrew said:
The only thing I'm aware of is that San Diego sank into the sea and is now under Aquaman's protection as Sub Diego.

Why does DC screw with real places? They blew up Montevideo in JLA. It might be just me, but things like this really take me out of the "reality" of the book.

mr_outsidevoice · Jan 1, 2005

Villano said:
Why does DC screw with real places? They blew up Montevideo in JLA. It might be just me, but things like this really take me out of the "reality" of the book.

When people can fly and shhot lasers from their eyes, "reality" does not enter the picture.

It sets the world up as real, and it creates a believable scenario. I have no clue where Gotham, Metropolis, Opal City, Fawcet City, or Bludhaven are. I know where Sandiego is. I've been there. that adds more "punch" to the story.

Viking Bastard · Jan 1, 2005

Well, it works the exact opposite way for me.

Every time I see Bush as the US president or some horrible thing
happen to some real world place (other than New York, Washington
DC and Los Angeles because Hollywood has made me completely
numb to them) I drop out of my sense of disbelief. Why? Because it
reminds me it isn't true. I can completely accept the DCU as a real
place, like I can accept, for instance, Tolkien's Middle Earth, but when
it’s mixed in with reality, my reality, it feels like it’s trying to say:
Hey, this is real! And my brain answers: No it frickin’ isn’t!

Australia got totalled in Invasion! but Neighbours is still on the air?
WTF? Bush orders Captain America around? No he doesn’t! Magneto
tortured his daughters on live TV? I’d have heard about that!

Get my drift?