I would like a simple sorceror revision.




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  1. #1

    I would like a simple sorceror revision.

    As many people I fill the the sorceror is underpowered and I have looked at several threads and there alternatives, but Im thinking more on a simple line of fixing them up. Like giving them a d6 hd or 4 skill points. Maybe even just a change in there spell advancement. It just seems so wrong that wizards get a faster spell advancement can know more spells and eventually get bonus feats. The extra casting doesnt make up for all that.
    Sure a paladin may have a high charisma in his golden fullplate, But! only until he gets diarrhea.

 

  • #2
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    Ankh-Morpork Guard's Avatar

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    ø Ignore Ankh-Morpork Guard
    Have you, by any chance, had a look at Monte Cook's Sorcerer? Sounds like(to me at least) that'd be what you're looking for.

  • #3
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    ø Ignore ender_wiggin
    Can you link to Monte Cook's sorceror?

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    ø Ignore Campbell
    Monte's Sorcerer Variant can be found within either The Book of Eldritch Might II or the Complete Book of Eldritch Might. Additionally, Monte's variant foils around with the Sorcerer's spell list which can become problematic for games that use non-core material.

    You should check out the sorcerer variant found at http://www.wakinglands.com . Preacherman's sorcerer maintains the same spell level access as a wizard of equal level, which goes a long way towards making sorcerers as viable as wizards.
    Last edited by Campbell; Thursday, 30th December, 2004 at 04:22 AM.
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    ø Ignore dwayne

    My game

    This is the one i use in my game and have had no unbalancing because of it.

    Its in a file because i do not like posting it all mix up.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by dwayne; Thursday, 30th December, 2004 at 06:42 AM.

  • #6
    Thanks for the input. Im going to test that out over the next few sessions.
    Sure a paladin may have a high charisma in his golden fullplate, But! only until he gets diarrhea.

  • #7
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    ø Ignore Sammael
    Here's my take on the sorcerer, using the Talents mechanic from d20 Modern. Seems balanced so far, and it's not as complicated to use as the variant bloodline sorcerers usually end up being.

    Sorcerer

    Class Skills: A sorcerer may add either Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, or Intimidate to his list of class skills.

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Spells: A sorcerer channels arcane energies.
    A sorcerer cannot swap spells (as the rule presented in the core rulebooks), but he may upgrade a single spell with a higher level spell on the same path each time a new “spell known” slot becomes available.
    (See www.seankreynolds.com for details on spell paths)

    Talent: At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, the sorcerer selects a talent from the following talent trees. As long as the sorcerer qualifies, he can select freely from any and all talent trees. No talent can be selected more than once unless so indicated by the talent’s description.

    Arcane Power Talent Tree

    Extra Spell: You learn one additional spell of any level that you can cast. You may select this talent multiple times.

    Extra Slot: You gain one extra spell slot of the highest level you can cast at the time when you select this talent. You may select this talent multiple times. Prerequisite: extra spell.

    Overchanneling: This ability enables you to fuel spells with your life force when you have no spell slots left. Whenever you overchannel a spell, you take a number of points of Constitution damage equal to the spell’s level. This ability damage can only be removed through natural healing. Prerequisite: extra spell.

    Sudden Metamagic: You may apply any one metamagic feat you know to a spell as a free action once per day per five class levels. Prerequisite: any one Metamagic feat.

    Battle Talent Tree

    Increased Hit Die: Your class hit die increases by one step (1d4 to 1d6, 1d6 to 1d8). You gain +1 hit point per sorcerer level gained before the hit die increase. You may select this talent twice.

    Armored Channeling: You gain Light Armor Proficiency. You do not suffer spell failure chance while wearing light armor. Prerequisite: increased hit die.

    Weapon Affinity: You gain proficiency and Weapon Focus with a non-exotic weapon of your choice. You may select this talent multiple times. Prerequisite: increased hit die.

    Weapon Channeling: You can deliver touch spells through a weapon you wield, provided you have the Weapon Focus feat for it or the weapon group it belongs to. Prerequisites: increased hit die, Weapon Focus.

    Familiar Talent Tree

    Summon Familiar: All familiars grant +2 to Spot and Listen checks while they are within arm’s reach. The sorcerer is not considered to have the Alertness feat. Other familiar benefits are specified in the Player’s Handbook.

    Augment Familiar: You add +1 to your class level when referencing Table 3-19 for your familiar's abilities. Furthermore, the range of effect for the Listen and Spot bonuses and spell sharing is extended to 10 feet. If you have more than one familiar, all are augmented. You may select this talent multiple times. Prerequisite: summon familiar.

    Extra Familiar: You can gain another familiar (although you must summon it normally). It must be a different creature than your other familiar(s). You may select this talent multiple times. Prerequisite: summon familiar.

    Improved Familiar: As the feat, but your sorcerer level is considered to be one level higher for the purpose of determining the type of creature you can select as your familiar. Prerequisite: summon familiar.
    Last edited by Sammael; Thursday, 30th December, 2004 at 09:49 AM.

  • #8
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    ø Ignore Thanee
    There are a lot of sorcerer variant threads in this forum.

    What I do is rather simple, too. I give them 4+Int skill points (since that seems more than fitting for someone who has more time to spend on other stuff than learning spells, and who cares for being able to use all simple weapons... should be something they can actually make some use of) and a few more class skills (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (the planes) and Use Magic Device). Also Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level.

    Additional possible changes are adding bonus metamagic feats every 5 levels and improving their spell progression, so they gain new spell levels like wizards do. I only do the above, tho, which I feel is more than enough to make the class less "bland" and it doesn't lack in power, anyways.

    HERE's the complete writeup.

    I do think that spontaneous casting is a huge ability. Probably the single most powerful ability in all D&D after being able to cast spells in the first place. And I don't think the sorcerer is underpowered at all. Maybe lacking a wee bit behind the wizard, but still ahead of most other core classes (cleric and druid not included for obvious reasons).

    Bye
    Thanee

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  • #9
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    ø Ignore Khaalis
    Having repeatedly bashed out arguments and concepts of the sorcerer, I feel that the delayed levels of spellcasting is a viable and balancing trade factor for gaining spontaneous casting. Even though I have written a Lineage based sorcerer, I too also use a "simplified" base sorcerer.

    Skills 4+INT
    Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Use Magic Device (Cha)

    1 - Summon Familiar, Sorcerous Metamagic
    2 - Detect Magic
    5 - Sorcerous Metamagic
    10- Sorcerous Metamagic
    15 - Sorcerous Metamagic
    20 - Sorcerous Metamagic

    Detect Magic (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, the sorcerer can use detect magic as the spell at will. Their caster level is equal to their sorcerer class level.

    Sorcerous Metamagic: The sorcerer may choose to take any Metamagic, Sudden Metamagic, or Spontaneous Metamagic (UA Variant) feat of their choice at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.


    For flavorful variants we have the following:

    VARIANTS
    * Note: Skills listed already appear in the "Alternate Sorcerer" list, but are listed here for those using only the CORE Sorcerer skill list.


    Battle Sorcerer (per Unearthed Arcana):
    • Increase HD from d4 to d8
    • Increase BAB to Intermediate
    • Gain 1 new class skill: Intimidate*
    • Gain Martial Weapon Proficiency feat
    • Gain Light Armor Proficiency feat
    • Gain ability to cast in Light armor at no Arcane Spell Failure
    Costs:
    • Reduce spell slots by 1 per spell level
    • Reduce spells known by 1 per spell level

    NEW VARIANTS
    Divine Sorcerer: The divine sorcerer is a sorcerer who has devoted themselves to following a particular religion from which they form the focus of their life. This focus influences the sorcerer’s innate magic as much as their personality and their actions in life.
    • Increase HD from d4 to d6
    • Increase BAB to Intermediate
    • Gain Light Armor Proficiency feat
    • Gain ability to cast in Light armor at no Arcane Spell Failure
    • Gain as class skills: Diplomacy*, Heal, Knowledge (religion, planes)
    • Gain 2 Cleric Domains, gaining the powers and access to the domain spells as part of the sorcerer’s spell list
    Costs:
    • Reduce spell slots by 1 per spell level
    • Reduce spells known by 1 per spell level
    • No familiar
    • Must be within one alignment step from their chosen deity

    Nature Sorcerer: The nature sorcerer is a sorcerer who has either devoted themselves to the way of nature or who has chosen or been forced to survive in the wilds. In whichever case, their ability to survive in wilderness terrains has become more the central focus of their life. This focus influences the sorcerer’s innate magic as much as their personality and their actions in life.
    • Increase HD from d4 to d6
    • Gain Light Armor Proficiency feat
    • Gain ability to cast in Light armor at no Arcane Spell Failure
    • Gain new class skills: Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Spot and Survival, and 4 skill points*
    • May learn any spell on the Ranger Spell List as if they were part of the sorcerer’s spell list
    • Gain an Animal Companion (as a Druid) instead of a Familiar
    • Gain one of the following as a bonus class ability: Track feat, Nature Sense (as druid), or Wild Empathy (as druid).
    Costs:
    • Reduce spell slots by 1 per spell level
    • Reduce spells known by 1 per spell level
    • Must be partially Neutral in alignment

    Stealth Sorcerer: The stealth sorcerer is a sorcerer who has devoted themselves to working within the criminal elements of the underworld. This can be working for a crime guild, using their powers for stealth and burglary etc. This focus influences the sorcerer’s innate magic as much as their personality and their actions in life.
    • Increase HD from d4 to d6
    • Gain Light Armor Proficiency feat
    • Gain ability to cast in Light armor at no Arcane Spell Failure
    • Gain 6+INT skill points
    • Gain as class skills: Appraise, Balance, Climb, Decipher Script, Diplomacy*, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information*, Hide, Intimidate*, Jump, Knowledge (local), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Search, Sense Motive*, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device* and Use Rope.
    Costs:
    • Reduce spell slots by 1 per spell level
    • Reduce spells known by 1 per spell level

    Contemplative Sorcerer: The contemplative sorcerer is a sorcerer who has devoted themselves to the way of monastic training and philosophy. Their philosophy becomes the central focus of their life. This focus influences the sorcerer’s innate magic as much as their personality and their actions in life.
    • Increase HD from d4 to d8
    • Increase BAB to Intermediate
    • Gain 1 new class skill: Knowledge (religion)
    • Gain Improved Unarmed Strike feat
    • Gain Stunning Fist feat
    • Gain the following class ability:
    AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the sorcerer adds their Wisdom bonus (if any) to their AC. In addition, they gain a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five sorcerer levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the sorcerer is flat-footed. They lose these bonuses when they are immobilized or helpless, when they wear any armor, when they carry a shield, or when they carry a medium or heavy load.
    Costs:
    • Reduce spell slots by 1 per spell level
    • Reduce spells known by 1 per spell level
    • No Familiar
    • Must be Lawful in alignment
    Last edited by Khaalis; Thursday, 30th December, 2004 at 11:55 AM.
    - Khaalis
    4E: Races: Dhampir, Risi, Minotaur / Classes: Fencer

    Old 3E Stuff: Classes: Lineage Sorcerer, Duelist, Primalist, Witch, Simple Sorcerer Variants, Daggerspell Psion, Alchemist / Races: Atan

  • #10

    Sean K. Reynolds

    Sean has a simple sorcerer revision at his site. Try this link and look at his house rules for the class: http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfile...p5chap123.html
    I haven't tried it as I use Monte Cook's variant.

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