An alternate set of tech levels (especially for low-tech games)

Howdy. I have been working on a project that requires some form of technology levels to compare different races and cultures. But most such systems are designed for sci-fi games. In a game like that, there's not much practical difference between, say, a bronze age culture and knights in shining armour. If you have a plasma rifle, either one is dead wet meat on a stick.

So I've been tinkering with a set of tech levels that has more detail on the low end of technology. If you're, say, from a Renaissance level culture, the differences between bronze age enemies and knights is pretty huge and important.

What I'm looking for here is some opinions on my tech levels, especially on the lower end. How do they look? Should I have more detail? Or less?

Some notes on the high end: since it seems, in the real world, that space travel is developed some time before actual space colonization happens, I'm assuming the same pattern will occur with star travel, too. Tech Level 12 is the first TL where significant computers appear. TL 13 is our tech level -- the era of personal computers and the internet. I'm being somewhat optimistic in assuming that the next TL will involve actual solar system colonization.

The first column lists equivalent Traveller tech levels -- since they have the original standard. The next column is my "new" tech levels, followed by a rough description. Early stone age would be like our very ancient ancestors. Bronze age would be like ancient Mesopotamia -- or the Aztecs; they didn't have bronze, but they had more sophisticated tools than the stone age. Iron age would be early Romans. Early iron age would be dark ages/early medieval. Late iron age would be the knight in shining armor. Renaissance would feature early guns, printing presses, and the beginning of truly global interaction.

I really like this. I was trying to do something similar, based on d20 Future's progress levels, but didn't get anywhere. Here's what they have, with your TLs after each one, at least until they diverge.

PL 0: STONE AGE (0-2)
PL 1: BRONZE/IRON AGE (3-4)
PL 2: MIDDLE AGES (5-6)
PL 3: AGE OF REASON (7)
PL 4: INDUSTRIAL AGE (8-10)
PL 5: INFORMATION AGE (11-13)
PL 6: FUSION AGE (13-14)
PL 7: GRAVITY AGE (15-?)
PL 8: ENERGY AGE

In general, your system/Traveller's system is more generous than d20 Future in terms of space travel, but d20 Future is pretty generous when it comes to other developments (although I can't currently compare the two).

You should check out the descriptions, at least; thye might help in fleshing out some ideas.
http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/FutureProgressLevels.rtf

I'd love to help, if I can. I'll post later once I've had some time to think this over.

Ah, interesting. I forgot about the d20 Future SRD -- I have no money or desire to buy the book, so I hadn't thought to check for this. Interesting. They use power sources as the main technology, while I (and to some extent Traveller) use space and star travel. Interesting. At least as valid a base assumption.

While my main interest is in the lower tech levels, this is a very different take than Traveller, so thanks a lot. It'll give me something else to consider for those higher tech levels...

How much detail do you want to have for each age? I huess I'm just not sure yet what your final goal is. Are you just doing a quick writeup for each like the d20 Future progress levels?

Also, I have a number of questions for you on your breakdown. What is the difference between your TL 0 and 1 -- what technologies are there in the paleolithic that don't exist in TL1? What differentiates the steel age/renaissance TLs 5-7 -- and where exactly does TL 5 start? I could see TL 5 starting well before steel was really understood and it was just overworked iron, or only when it was worked more directly. (Maybe this is the difference between 5 and 6.)

Try 0 no tech,1 stick tech,2 dawn tech first stone tools.3 old stone age,4 middle stone age,5 new stone age,6 copper age.A&A person.elforcelf,p.s.can be subdived more too.

CRGreathouse said:

How much detail do you want to have for each age? I huess I'm just not sure yet what your final goal is. Are you just doing a quick writeup for each like the d20 Future progress levels?

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My current goal is to use the lower tech levels -- up to about the Renaissance-level -- in a gaming product I'm working on. But I want consistant upper tech levels for future products. I like consistancy.

CRGreathouse said:

Also, I have a number of questions for you on your breakdown. What is the difference between your TL 0 and 1 -- what technologies are there in the paleolithic that don't exist in TL1?

Click to expand...

My tech level 0 will be a true zero point: no technology whatsoever. I was always kind of bothered that TL 0 in Traveller including quite a bit of technology. TL 1 will be early stone age -- hunter/gatherers. TL 2 will be the dawn of agriculture, which I need to get in the description.

CRGreathouse said:

What differentiates the steel age/renaissance TLs 5-7 -- and where exactly does TL 5 start? I could see TL 5 starting well before steel was really understood and it was just overworked iron, or only when it was worked more directly. (Maybe this is the difference between 5 and 6.)

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Thanks for pointing this all out. I need to get things more refined. TL 7 is the beginning of gunpowder weapons and the end of feudalism. So "The Three Musketeers". TL 6 would be the height of feudalism, with the last stages of practical metal armor (the best plate doesn't show up until TL 7, at which point it is useless in the face of crossbows and guns). It also features the competing military technologies of the crossbow and the polearm formation. TL 4 is the Roman era, roughly. TL 5 would be the period between TL 4 and TL 6. It includes the Germanic barbarians and early feudalism.

My names for the tech levels could definitely use some work, but your questions are helping me think it out.

elforcelf said:

Try 0 no tech,1 stick tech,2 dawn tech first stone tools.3 old stone age,4 middle stone age,5 new stone age,6 copper age.A&A person.elforcelf,p.s.can be subdived more too.

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Hmm. Might be a little too subdivided for casual readers. I don't really have the room for an entire anthropology textbook. But I'll think about adding another subdivision in there at the beginning. Not sure which, though...

Cyberzombie said:

Hmm. Might be a little too subdivided for casual readers. I don't really have the room for an entire anthropology textbook. But I'll think about adding another subdivision in there at the beginning. Not sure which, though...

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If anywhere, I'd add one between the 'classic' neolithic and the Bronze Age, somthing that shows the more advanced, often copper tools and weapons in the late Neolithic.

I know that your focus is on the early tech levels, but TL 13-15 are a little unclear to me... what, if anything, differentiates these? Are you just 'that much' closer to the next level, or are there actual technological changes between these steps? (Of course it's hard to be predictive about the future, but it's not sueful in a game without some level of detail.)

CRGreathouse said:

If anywhere, I'd add one between the 'classic' neolithic and the Bronze Age, somthing that shows the more advanced, often copper tools and weapons in the late Neolithic.

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That sounds reasonable. They would have had a different way of fighting than either the late stone age or the Romans. Call it the Mesopotamian/early Egyptian era.

CRGreathouse said:

I know that your focus is on the early tech levels, but TL 13-15 are a little unclear to me... what, if anything, differentiates these? Are you just 'that much' closer to the next level, or are there actual technological changes between these steps? (Of course it's hard to be predictive about the future, but it's not sueful in a game without some level of detail.)

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Again, thanks; these are things I need to think about. TL 13 is, basically, our world. The internet, "smart" weaponry, the beginnings of private space flight. TL 14 would presumably include the start of colonies on the moon, and trips to Mars. TL 15 would feature space travel by means other than chemical rockets -- light sails, ramjets, maybe even fission reactors. It would feature the start of Mars colonies. TL 16 would have more advanced space flight -- say, fusion reactors -- as well as serious terraforming of Mars, a la Kim Stanley Robinson. That would probably continue on into the next couple of tech levels, though; terraforming Mars wouldn't be a simple task.

That make things any clearer? Can you see any major things I'm overlooking here?

Double post. Probably should be glad it wasn't a triple post.