(Proposal) Gambling

Velmont · Jan 31, 2005

Here an altered rule from Spycraft for Gambling:

Gambling can be regroup into two types of game:

The first type are games that are played against the house, and generally, it is mere luck and some mathematic that allow to gain some money, like craps and blackjack. To see if you win, you roll a Profession(Gambler) check. The check is opposed by the house (D20 + modification depending on the odds and the level of cheating of the house).

The second type of game are games that you play against other person. These games are a mix of knowledge of the rules, mathematic, bluff and reading opponent emotion. Example of games are all the pokers. For these games, every player roll a dice, and add his Profession(Gambler), Bluff or Sense Motive. Having 5 or more ranks in an other skill offer a +2 synergy bonus. The highest roll win.

Cheating: In some games, it is possible to cheat, like in poker. If you are the dealer, or if you have prepared you cheating (like having hidden some card on yourself), you can do a Sleight-of-Hand roll against a fix DC. Opponents are allowed a Spot roll. If you beat the DC, you are suceesfull and win the hand. If opponents beat your Sleight-of-Hand roll, they have seen the attempt, successfull or not.

azmodean · Jan 31, 2005

I would suggest that successfully cheating gives you a bonus on the hand, not necessarily a win.

Kahuna Burger · Jan 31, 2005

adding all three of gambler, bluff and sense motive seems excessive. might be better to say that you can choose one to use and the other two grant a synergy bonus if you have more than 5 ranks in them. I agree about cheating giving a bonus.

kb

Velmont · Jan 31, 2005

Azmodean said:
I would suggest that successfully cheating gives you a bonus on the hand, not necessarily a win.

Not a bad idea, but how much? It can be a fixed number or a varied number. Varied number could be a 1 for 1 point for a roll that beat the DC(A roll of 18 against a DC 15 give a +3). A fix number, what would it be?

I would suggest that: The cheater choose a bonus he want to add. This bonus is add to a DC:15. If he beat the DC with his Sleight-of-Hand roll, he gain that bonus.

Why that, because it is easier to quickly cut the deck to give the first card to someone else. It is harder to give to yourself a Straight Flush Royal...

Kahuna Burger said:
adding all three of gambler, bluff and sense motive seems excessive. might be better to say that you can choose one to use and the other two grant a synergy bonus if you have more than 5 ranks in them. I agree about cheating giving a bonus.

Make a lot of senses. I'll edit my first post to reflect it.

Another suggestion, now that I think of it, playing against the house could be handle just as any profession, which mean you win a certain amount of money with a sucessfull roll, but where I don't like this last idea, it is you can't lose money with normal profession roll, and a bad gambler will finish by losing his shirt.

Dexerion · Jan 31, 2005

i love the idea of useing the profession for an income. it could just have some tough rules on it so that unlike other professions you can make a buttload of money one time, and loose a ton the next. it would add a lot of rp character to gamblers, especially if they go in debt to a house and have to run from them or work for them to pay off the debt.

okay, a few ideas. first off i don't like the idea of useing bluff and sense motive in opposed rolls against a trained profession of cards or gambling skill, because of the nature of poker and the fact that some would feel like they wasted their ranks in gambling. rather i think that a bluff can be used before a profession check and others can oppose it by a sense motive check. if the opposed sense motive calls the bluff, then a profession check is made on the game, if the sense motive fails, the hand goes to the bluffer. Even though this is a bit more complicated because it involves two rolls, would do much more justice to the nature of the game and those that use ranks in gambling.

just a for instance. we sit down for a game of poker and throw in anttes. opale bluffs and jack opposes a sense motive check. jack fails it and opale gets the hand or jack makes the check and then opposed profession checks are made. this allows the trained gambler to retain his edge by ranks but also allows a good lier to take a hand or two.

Velmont · Jan 31, 2005

Dexerion said:
okay, a few ideas. first off i don't like the idea of useing bluff and sense motive in opposed rolls against a trained profession of cards or gambling skill, because of the nature of poker and the fact that some would feel like they wasted their ranks in gambling. rather i think that a bluff can be used before a profession check and others can oppose it by a sense motive check. if the opposed sense motive calls the bluff, then a profession check is made on the game, if the sense motive fails, the hand goes to the bluffer. Even though this is a bit more complicated because it involves two rolls, would do much more justice to the nature of the game and those that use ranks in gambling.

just a for instance. we sit down for a game of poker and throw in anttes. opale bluffs and jack opposes a sense motive check. jack fails it and opale gets the hand or jack makes the check and then opposed profession checks are made. this allows the trained gambler to retain his edge by ranks but also allows a good lier to take a hand or two.

Ok, I understand your point, but doesn't understand your solution... the example confuse me. So, if I understand:

Bluff vs. Sense Motive
If Bluffer win, he win the hand.
If Sense Motive win, we do an oppose Profession check...

If I am right, I see it a worst solution to the problem you've lift, as Bluff become the main skill in Poker (which is not that false, but you seem to say you would like to have an emphasis on Profession(Gambler)).

Other suggestion?

Kahuna Burger · Jan 31, 2005

I guess it depends on how complicated we want to make this.... Also, while I agree that a professional gambler should have a long term advantage, they should shine the most in numbers games.

here's an amendment to my earlier suggestion. In numbers games, you can go with a profession check or an untrained int check. In a bluffing game, you can use either your bluff, sense motive, or profession check. The profession check can recieve synergy bonuses from both bluff and sense motive, but the other skill uses receive no bonuses.

kahuna burger

SlagMortar · Jan 31, 2005

Probably the most fair and consistant solution is Kahuna's suggestion Bluff and Sense Motive each provide a +2 synergy bonus with 5 ranks. This means 5 ranks spent on Profession (Gambler) are more valuable than 5 ranks spent on Bluff, but it rewards someone who rounds out skills that would be important to card playing, and it gives a character skilled in interaction a fighting chance even if they are untrained in gambling. It also keeps it with 1 roll, and uses the synergy system already in place with other skills.

For cheating, I suggest opposed Sleight of Hand vs Spot with the bonus desired adding to the spot roll. Example: Cheater wants a +5. Opposed rolls is: Sleight of Hand of cheater versus Spot of observer +5. You can take 10, but obviously cannot take 20. Being able to take 10 actually makes it useful, otherwise it would be pretty risky.

Dexerion · Jan 31, 2005

i read over the synergy. i like it. kb's suggestion is perfect because, like slag said, it makes the proffession of gambler more useful. i am not sure i understand the cheating you suggest though and i don't like taking 10 on it. cheating is suppose to be risky.

SlagMortar · Jan 31, 2005

Better example of my cheating proposal. It might be an overly complicated system.:
Example:
Bob with Profession (Gambler) of +6 and Joe with Profession (Gambler) of +5 are playing cards. Bob decides to cheat in order to get a +5 bonus on his Profession (Gambler) check and has a Sleight of Hand of +6. Joe has a Spot of +2.
Bob makes a Sleight of Hand roll at +6. Joe makes a Spot check at +7 (+2 from Spot bonus and +5 from the amount of the cheat.) Bob rolls a 12 + 6 = 18. Joe rolls a 8 + 7 = 15. Bob gets away with cheating. Then they make Profession (Gambler) checks and Bob gets a +5 bonus for cheating. Bob rolls a 10 + 6 + 5 for cheating = 21. Joe rolls 15 +5 = 20. Bob wins because he cheated.