(Proposal) Gambling - Page 2




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  1. #11
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    Ignore orsal
    Quote Originally Posted by SlagMortar
    Better example of my cheating proposal. It might be an overly complicated system.:
    Example:
    Bob with Profession (Gambler) of +6 and Joe with Profession (Gambler) of +5 are playing cards. Bob decides to cheat in order to get a +5 bonus on his Profession (Gambler) check and has a Sleight of Hand of +6. Joe has a Spot of +2.
    Bob makes a Sleight of Hand roll at +6. Joe makes a Spot check at +7 (+2 from Spot bonus and +5 from the amount of the cheat.) Bob rolls a 12 + 6 = 18. Joe rolls a 8 + 7 = 15. Bob gets away with cheating. Then they make Profession (Gambler) checks and Bob gets a +5 bonus for cheating. Bob rolls a 10 + 6 + 5 for cheating = 21. Joe rolls 15 +5 = 20. Bob wins because he cheated.
    Looks good. One suggestion -- should Profession (gambler) ranks have any effect on catching cheats? I would expect a seasoned gambler to know all the ways in which people might cheat, and that can be a big help in catching them.

 

  • #12
    I like the concept SlagMortar presents a lot.
    A minor quibble, wouldn't it be easier for the one trying to cheat to take the desired modifier as a penalty instead of the other person taking it as a bonus?

    Perhaps allow the cheat attempt to be opposed by the sense motive or profession(gambler), whichever is better? I'd also say no taking 10 on a sleight-of-hand attempt (unless you have that special rogue ability of course )
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  • #13
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    Ignore Velmont
    Gambling:
    Up to now, I prefer the rules suggested by KB, as only Profession(Gambler) gain synergy bonus from the other two.

    Cheating:
    I think too that the take 10 shouldn't be allowed (except to Rogue who have the Special Ability, or maybe a Gambler prestige class????).

    For to oppose the Sleight-of-Hand, both Sense Motive and Profession(Gambler)can be use, it would even put more value on the Profession skill.

    And should we go with SlagMortar suggestion?

    Synergy:
    As told by KB, I would apply synergy bonus to Profession(Gambler) if you have 5 or more rank in Bluff or Sense Motive. These bonus can be used for bluffing games, but to play and to detect cheating. Those bonus doesn't apply to number games.
    Characters
    Jarel-karn - Genasi Swordmage 12 [L4W]
    Gloom - Longtooth Shifter Paladin 11 [L4W]
    Eloan - Eladrin Warlord 7 [L4W]
    River - Longtooth Shifter Cleric 11 [LEB]
    Malehan - Elf Avenger 8 [LEB]
    Valeria - Human Witch 1

    "Experience is that great thing that allow you to see a mistake when you do it again."

  • #14
    I don't really see a problem with putting more emphasis on profession(gambler), as this is all you can really do with it.

    And as far as cheating on a number game, if you are talking about dice, you can definitely cheat at that.

    When you play a game, you might want to specify wether or not bluffing would help. So you might say, "The game is texas hold-em (bluff game)" to designate that people should use the bluff and sense motive synergy checks. Otherwise you might say, "the game is chouhan (non-bluff game)" to let people know not to use their synergies. (of course, now that I think of it, you could play chouhan on the board, the dealer rolls 2d6, all of the players call out chou (even) or han(odd), and the house pays out to whoever guessed correctly, since we have secure rolling, all of the players could call out chou or han first, then the dealer could roll.)
    ENWorld characters
    Spoiler:

    Artax A living Enworld character.
    Level 1 Human Ranger. Scout and Warrior.
    Artax is currently at Fort Knocks

    A'jardin A living Enworld character.
    Level 1 Human Wizard. Tinkerer and Scholar.
    A'jardin is currently in Immortality Awakens

    With the power of love.
    Possibly by means of a love-powered laser or some such.
    -Doug McCrae
    Given a choice between adapting your players to fit your campaign, or adapting your campaign to fit your players, always adapt your campaign.
    -Lord Zardoz
    [sigvirus]cheese[/sigvirus]
    [sigvirus]uhoh[/sigvirus]

  • #15
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    Ignore Rae ArdGaoth
    Here's one question I have about gambling rolls in general: How do you determine who gets how much money and who loses how much? Perhaps some random system based on the "starting money" and the "max pot" which would be set before the rolls. I'm not really sure. For games like those going on in the tavern, I would say we just assume that everybody comes out even in the end, since it's only a couple of copper per player. But even little games can get big, and big games can get dangerous. It might be seen as over complicating things, but I think it's an important aspect of the concept.

    Also, someone (Velmont, it's your proposal) should compile all the comments in this thread so judges can have something concrete to approve (or disapprove!) of.
    Last edited by Rae ArdGaoth; Wednesday, 2nd February, 2005 at 10:11 PM.

  • #16
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    Ignore Velmont
    OK, here the different point that have been told about.

    1. Number game rules
    2. Number game cheating
    3. Number game Winnings
    4. Bluffing game rules
    5. Bluffing game cheating
    6. Bluffing game Winnings


    1.
    To see if you win, you roll a Profession(Gambler) check. The check is opposed by the house (D20 + modification depending on the odds and the level of cheating of the house).
    2.
    Nothing yet.

    3.
    Nothing yet.

    4.
    For these games, every player roll a dice, and add his Profession(Gambler), Bluff or Sense Motive. If you use Profession(Gambler), having 5 or more ranks in Bluff or Sense Motive offer a +2 synergy bonus. The highest roll win.
    or
    For these games, every player roll a dice, and add his Profession(Gambler). If you use Profession(Gambler), having 5 or more ranks in Bluff or Sense Motive offer a +2 synergy bonus. The highest roll win.
    5.
    For cheating, I suggest opposed Sleight of Hand vs Spot with the bonus desired adding to the spot roll. Example: Cheater wants a +5. Opposed rolls is: Sleight of Hand of cheater versus Spot of observer +5. You cannot take 10 on that roll.
    or
    For cheating, I suggest opposed Sleight of Hand vs Spot with the bonus desired being a penalty to the Sleight of Hand roll. Example: Cheater wants a +5. Opposed rolls is: Sleight of Hand of cheater -5 versus Spot of observer. You can take 10, but obviously cannot take 20. You cannot take 10 on that roll.
    6.
    Nothing yet.
    Last edited by Velmont; Friday, 4th February, 2005 at 10:40 AM.
    Characters
    Jarel-karn - Genasi Swordmage 12 [L4W]
    Gloom - Longtooth Shifter Paladin 11 [L4W]
    Eloan - Eladrin Warlord 7 [L4W]
    River - Longtooth Shifter Cleric 11 [LEB]
    Malehan - Elf Avenger 8 [LEB]
    Valeria - Human Witch 1

    "Experience is that great thing that allow you to see a mistake when you do it again."

  • #17
    So, for playing Poker, I...Roll 1d20+1(Wis. and Prof. Gambler modefier). Then to cheat, i can roll 1d20+?* with the DC being ?**. I can catch someone cheating by using a spot check*** which will catch the cheater if my roll beats his. Also, whats the sleight-of-hand ability?


    *=what ability modefier?
    **=Whats the Diufficulty class?
    ***=Can spot be used untrained?

  • #18
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    Ignore Velmont
    That thread has been quiet for a while, so here the suggestion I do officially to the mods, considering all that has been told here.

    1. Number game rules
    To see if you win, you roll a Profession(Gambler) check, or an Intelligence roll. The check is opposed by the house (D20 + modification depending on the odds and the level of cheating of the house). The modifier is hidden to the player.

    2. Number game cheating
    A Sleight-of-Hand roll is made, and is opposed by a Spot made by the house. The DC of the Sleight-of-Hand is 15+(Bonus wanted). If he is successfull, he gain that bonus, if not, he roll normally. If the house roll over the Sleight-of-Hand result, the player is spotted cheating (even if he wasn't successfull).

    3. Number game winnings
    The difference between the two checks is multiplied by a number fixed by the DM. That is the amount the player win/lose.

    4. Bluffing game rules
    To see if you win, you roll a Profession(Gambler) check. That check received synergy bonus from Sense Motive and Bluff. The player may choose to roll a Bluff check or Sense Motive check instead, but he gain no synergy bonus from the other skills. The check is rolled by all player, and the highest roll win.

    5. Bluffing game cheating
    A Sleight-of-Hand roll is made, and is opposed by a Spot made by the other players. The DC of the Sleight-of-Hand is 15+(Bonus wanted). If he is successfull, he gain that bonus, if not, he roll normally. If another player roll over the Sleight-of-Hand result, the player is spotted cheating (even if he wasn't successfull).

    6. Bluffing game winnings
    A base bet is determine at the start of the game. A player has bet that amount to start to play. Everyone raise a number of time equals to the natural roll of there check, divided by 5, rounded down. (Mean: 1-4 = 0 raise, 5-9 = 1 raise, 10-14 = 2 raise, 15-19 = 3 raise, 20= 4 raise). To determine the number of raise made, DO NOT ADD your modifier, only the natural roll of the dice is used.
    Last edited by Velmont; Tuesday, 15th February, 2005 at 10:38 AM.
    Characters
    Jarel-karn - Genasi Swordmage 12 [L4W]
    Gloom - Longtooth Shifter Paladin 11 [L4W]
    Eloan - Eladrin Warlord 7 [L4W]
    River - Longtooth Shifter Cleric 11 [LEB]
    Malehan - Elf Avenger 8 [LEB]
    Valeria - Human Witch 1

    "Experience is that great thing that allow you to see a mistake when you do it again."

  • #19
    But whats the bluffing game cheating bonus if you roll it successfully?

  • #20
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    Ignore Velmont
    Quote Originally Posted by Velmont
    5. Bluffing game cheating
    The DC of the Sleight-of-Hand is 15+(Bonus wanted). If he is successfull, he gain that bonus
    So, let's say Jack (no one is pointed by this random name ) try to place the card while dealing. He says he want to have a +10 bonus, so his DC will be 25. If he is successfull, he will be able to roll for his Profession(Grambler), Bluff or Sense Motive with the usual bonus, and a +10 over that.
    Characters
    Jarel-karn - Genasi Swordmage 12 [L4W]
    Gloom - Longtooth Shifter Paladin 11 [L4W]
    Eloan - Eladrin Warlord 7 [L4W]
    River - Longtooth Shifter Cleric 11 [LEB]
    Malehan - Elf Avenger 8 [LEB]
    Valeria - Human Witch 1

    "Experience is that great thing that allow you to see a mistake when you do it again."

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