How do you start off at 1st level with a +123 or 4 level adjustment..

Never done this so I would be interested in knowing how it works.

Thorncrest

Sir ThornCrest said:

Never done this so I would be interested in knowing how it works.

Thorncrest

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Officially? You shouldn't start at first level. Characters like that are expected to be part of a party with an average level that is close to their ECL (effective character level).


There are options for DM's who want to start at first level, but allow level adjustment races:

Give them all their benefits right away, but they still start at 0 xp, and don't gain a level until they get enough to increase their ECL. (I.e. a 1st level character with a +2 level adjustment doesn't advance to level 2 until they have enough XP to hit level 4.)
--They start off more powerful, but don't advance until everyone else has caught up to them.

Stagger the benefits of the race over a few levels, basically forcing them to take "monster levels" until they have bought off the level adjustment. Savage Species has rules for doing this.
--This is much more complicated, but ensures that everyone (theoretically) starts off on an even footing.

Level Adjustment races tend to have a lot of problems at low levels and high levels. At low levels they generally have lower hit points and worse saves than an equivalent character without level adjustments, sometimes drastically so. At high levels it's the same problem, but worse. Races with a Con bonus suffer from this less at higher levels. The racial abilities are supposed to balance this out, but it really depends on the type of campaign. In combat intensive campaigns they tend not to be worth it, in my opinion.

From what I hear, it's slightly less problematic at epic levels, depending on the exact race and level adjustment.

Caliban said:

Give them all their benefits right away, but they still start at 0 xp, and don't gain a level until they get enough to increase their ECL. (I.e. a 1st level character with a +2 level adjustment doesn't advance to level 2 until they have enough XP to hit level 4.)
--They start off more powerful, but don't advance until everyone else has caught up to them.

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I don't know where I read this, but I saw suggestions about doing this and giving the PC a number of negative levels that he can't get rid of except by gaining levels.

In other words, that PC would start with 2 negative levels. Then when he had enough XP to go to second level, he'd lose one of the two and so on.

I've never tried it though. Couldn't judge if it works well or not.

Edit : In the interest of completeness, they would get -1 to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks per negative level. I don't know how they could get the -5 hit points or -1 to effective character level, or else the only drow you could play with those rules would be barbarians or wights. And I don't think it's feasible to have an effective level of 0.

Unless it gives too much of a difference, you can also just let the one with LA start at a higher ECL (+1 or maybe +2, not more). The lower levels will gain more XP and catch up soon enough and LA is a rather big penalty at lower levels, anyways.

Bye
Thanee

Yay first post

Pardon the lack of graduer. Monster classes or start at first level with a portion of the abilties everytime you would level up get some more of its abilities. Of course this doesnt anways make sense or is always an easy option it works. (cant find spellchecker if you indeed even have one)

For example

When i said abilities I ment stat adjustments, Its various special abilities and all bonuses

If its just a +1 LA race, I wouldn't think it would unbalance things too much to let the character start off at level 1 (with the +1 LA) and not advance to 2nd level until he has enough XP to reach 3rd level. He gets the racial benefits but has to sit idly by while the rest of the party takes a level once.

If its a +2 or higher ECL, I'd strongly suggest breaking the racial benefits into separate levels and making the character take "monster" levels before progressing in a character class, as was also suggested.

The negative level idea looks interesting. I have to admit I had never considered it before.

In the past, I've solved the problem by starting out characters at 3rd level. Of course, that skirts the issue of starting at 1st level and doesn't address your initial question.

There are, IMO, two ways to handle it.

1. Don't let them play those races. At lower levels, those charactes have massive problems due to lack of hit points. At least half the effective character level should be actual hit dice (so a drow shouldn't be playable before level 4, where he'd have 2hd), and I recmommend even 2/3 (so drow at level 6).

2. Use monster/template classes (where you start up with only some of your racial abilities and take "levels" that don't give you HD or related benefits, like BAB, skill points, etc., but gain more of your racial stuff). But don't require them to take those additional levels right away! So a drow would get some of her race's abilities and one class level at the beginning of her career. At 2nd level, she wouldn't have to get a level of drow, but could take another class level. If you don't like the fact that they theoretically could take one level of the racial class and leave the rest, you can put in a limit: they have to take those levels when their class levels would be 2/3 of the complete ecl (and could take them sooner, of course). So that drow could become fighter 1, fighter 2, but before becoming fighter 3, she would have to take the first level of drow to gain some more of the racial abilities. Then, when she's fighter 4/drow 1, she'd have to take the other level of drow before continuing with the regular classes.

It makes sense to me that you just started them with too little experience to be the ECL they're at. Like, if everyone's level 2 and someone makes a Ftr1 with a +3 LA, he just starts with 0 experience and he has to get 10,000 xp to level while everyone has to get 2,000 to level. The amount xp difference, combined with the fact that lower level characters get more experience, make it balance.

In the past for +1ECL races I've allowed apprentice rules from the 3.0 DMG. That seemed to work welll enough. I don't know if the apprentice rules made it to 3.5 though. I've never allowed an ECL of +2 or higher for a PC.