Evil Parties - and Evil PC's - A Discussion

Seeten

First Post
I have seen in many threads, and anecdotally in my own town, many DM's/GM's who are completely against evil PC's and groups. In my own groups, we have 3 DM's and 2 of them will not allow an evil PC at all. I have also heard about all sorts of evil parties on these boards who seem to be all about raping the fields and pillaging the women.

I spoke to one of our DM's about it, and he said he'd seen an evil group when he was 15, and he still wasnt over the experience of what they did, and he thought it was sick. Well, after he relayed what his group had done, I agreed, it was sick, but I dont really see how representative it is of properly played evil characters.

I am going to go with an example of a character I played ages ago, a lawful evil fighter, and I am not trying for an "I rp better than yall" feel here, but more of a "I consider this both evil, fun to rp, and not disruptive to a group" feel. The character was female, a victim of rape, and carrying a lot of anger. She took the anger into martial training, and became skilled with the sword. She hated. She hated the tyrant who ruled the land. She hated the tyrants soldiers. She hated most men(exceptions made for friends, particularly ones who had helped women). She hated women who exploited women. She wanted revenge, basically on everyone. She didnt cause disruptions in the group, aside from some snide comments from time to time. She was an excellent tactician, and made battle plans for the group. She was an excellent motivator, and motivated lords, politicians, mayors, and others, to take actions which benefitted the people, generally. She would always stop to help a woman in need. She believed she was right, and she believed she was good, and just. She was always consistent, and never took an action she felt was wrong. That said, she murdered. She ruthlessly killed. Her enemies. The enemies of her people. She was merciless. If you attacked a town with women and children in it, she'd chase you down to the end of the earth to run you through. She had serious anger management issues. In the end she killed the tyrant, 2 years after the campaign started, and took over the land. She ruled it in a mailed iron fist. She was lawful evil, from beginning to end. She sounds like a modern libertarian, and she was, she was a college student from earth, magically transported to this fantasy world.

There was a Paladin in the party, and he understood and sympathized with many of her views, but she never went out of her way to be mean to him. He was old fashioned, but well intentioned. She thought he was naive, but not mean spirited, and always treated him well. I dont understand why this sort of thing wouldnt work in a campaign run by others. It was a great source of rp opportunities beyond, I kill X! I kill Y! If all you do is kill, whats the difference if its beholders or level 19 clerics of Pelor?

Poorly run characters of evil running about to kill and rape is ugly, but that smacks of immaturity, not evils fault. Discuss?
 

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DragonSword

First Post
Personally, I don't ever play evil characters. I've DMed an evil party because the players begged me to, but never wanted to play one myself. I'm just a nice guy I guess, plus I'm a real Tolkienite, and in my fantasy, good ALWAYS triumphs over evil.

Maybe I'm old fashioned...
 

pdkoning

First Post
I really like the character you described, I would not know however if her alignment would be LE...

My experience with players who play evil characters is that they go the Stupid Evil way:
One character was a Cleric of Bane, who muttered 'Bane' every two minutes and had an unstoppable desire to kill any good or neutral npcs and just screwed up every dialog by screaming 'kill!'

I think one needs better roleplaying skills to play interesting evil character than to play interesting good characters.

This might be the reason some DM's don't allow them.
 

the Jester

Legend
In a typical group imc, alignments run the gamut. Often a party has both LG and CE in it, or CG and LE... personalities and moral codes may differ, but people can still work together and be friends.
 

Storyteller01

First Post
Most of the campaigns I've seen with evil characters tend to devolve into one of two things:

- I do it because I can get away with it

or

- It's fun, but I have no clue what it really means to do X


It may be considered immature, but it's the reason why numerous REAL evil works are done.

I think (just a thought) that if folks want to really play an evil character, they need to know what it is their doing when they go off to rape, pillage, etc. Difficult to do given that the environment isn't real. A DM of mine pulled this on a 2e paladin years ago. It's not evil per se, but to got the point across:


Our paladin had been placed in charge of a group of 300 soldiers (not sure of the exact name). During the battle, the paladin ordered a charge. He hadn't bothered to plan/strategize/etc, and the DM expected this. After the battle, the DM handed the player a slip of paper:

DM: Message from the general...

Player: ALRIGHT!! (something about commendations). Wait... what are all the names for?

DM: These are the names of your soldiers who died in battle. The general thought you should be the one to inform the families...

Player:....

Made for an interesting game.



Side Note: Currently running a DS 'evil' campaign. We have the usual suspects (man hating elf, two drow out to kill each other, CN soldier with no real alliances, etc). The only way we've kept the group together is to make sure their fear of the boss is greater than their ambitions.
 

azmodean

First Post
It seems from your description that your character was either LN or LG, not evil. Did she kill purely for her own benefit? Did she steal from or otherwise harm innocents maliciously? You say she was a murderer, who did she kill?
 

Mallus

Legend
As long as the players agree in a fine, gentlemanly, metagame fashion to play nice w/each other, I have no problem running evil characters. And playing them every once in a while is a blast.

A few observations:

1) Its not PC's with particular alignments that ruin campaigns. Its players with particular personalities...

2) The real difference between DM'ing for evil is in the nature of the challenges the DM presents. Instead of a 'rescue the princess' scenario, you need 'kidnap her in the first place and get away with it'.

3) So it has nothing to with morals and everything to do with tactics.

4) Either 'side' can provide a group with an enjoyable campaign experience. Wanting to play evil can represent nothing more than a deisre to face new/different obstacles in the course of play.

5) A players decision to derail a camapign has nothing to do with the character's alignment. See 1).

That's about it.
 

Seeten

First Post
Over the top evil doesnt survive long. I mean really. Look at the real world. Yakuza, Mafia, they all have their good sides. They are good to their people. They help people. They are still evil. Its just that they arent CE gangbangers driveby shooting everything they see. I mean, its a matter of in order to get things done, you cant randomly murder everything. Even a chaotic evil tyrant, with a decent intelligence rating, will not be randomly killing everything/one. It just doesnt make sense. Motives, in my opinion, are what determine alignment, not just actions. If you butter up the pig, and feed it well for 10 years, the pig may think your awesome. It doesnt know its just to butcher it when its a nice size. Know what I mean?
 

Kemrain

First Post
I'm playing in a game what is only recently starting to bend back towards the side of good. There was a Lawful Evil human and a barely Chaotic Neutral half-demon (whom the human put to shame in the evil department) together, and they caused some mayham. It might have been the storyline, or the gm style, but the PC's always ended up siding with one group of good guys or another. They ended up doing what it takes to get the job done when others couldn't, even if it meant murder, or worse. They were opposing first a necromancer who wanted to wipe out all life on the continent, and then a woman who saught to make herself queen. They helped preserve the status quo and allow the world to continue on as it had because they weren't in it for evil, they were in it for revenge and other sellfish persuits.

Evil parties don't need to be raping and pillaging. In fact, these PC's are more likley to kill those who rape and pillage than do it themselves. Evil need not be oblivious to the consequences of it's actions, and it doesn't have to kill indecriminantly. You don't need to make the Book of Vile Darkness look like a children's bedtime story. Evil just means that you think about Numero Uno before anything else, and you're willing to dance on the backs of the bruised to get to where you need to be. That kind of evil campaign can be great fun.

- Kemrain the [Evil] and Noticing a Trend in Sigs.
 

Seeten

First Post
azmodean said:
It seems from your description that your character was either LN or LG, not evil. Did she kill purely for her own benefit? Did she steal from or otherwise harm innocents maliciously? You say she was a murderer, who did she kill?

She beat a mayor of a fairly large town half to death for an insult to either her, or women in general(Cant remember which, campaign was 14 years ago now). She killed a soldier for touching her in a manner she didnt approve of. She killed his friend right after for drawing steel to help his friend.

She strong armed the nobles with direct physical threats(once she was powerful enough.) She drew soldiers to her through her personal charisma, and used the forces to occupy areas with laws she didnt approve of, brutalized the law makers, changed the laws/took over and made her own laws.(Very restrictive, as far as men went.) I mean, she meant well, usually, and she had charisma, but she was not a nice person. She was a tyrant. When she was younger, she was just angry, as she got more seasoned, she became colder, and with more power, she took more responsibility for making things better. Most women hailed her as a saviour. The land as a whole, well...
 

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