The Problem with Goblinoids

For awhile now, I've had a problem with the way goblins and similar races (hobgoblins, bugbears, etc.) are portrayed in D&D, all the way back to 1st edition.

Simply put, D&D goblinoids are too boring and generic. Aside from the fact that goblins are Lawful Evil and orcs are Chaotic Evil, there isn't much separating them from orcs in terms of appearance and the role they fill in the game world. (Before anyone says anything: yes, yes, I KNOW their statistics adjustments are a LITTLE different...) They're both just races of evil jerks who look similar (snub nose, big teeth, mean expression...). This probably goes back to Tolkein, in whose works orcs and goblins are essentially different words for the same thing. To put it bluntly, in 1st edition D&D goblins and hobgoblins were just "orcs with 1-1 or 1+1 hit dice instead of 1 hit dice", and the same problem continues, to some extent, all the way up to D&D3.5. All the (small amount of) "flavor" that's been added to goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears is just a retroactive attempt to patch up their basic generic-ness dating back to 1st edition.

It shouldn't be like this, though. In terms of fantasy archetypes, the idea of "goblins" is right up there with dragons, elves and dwarves. There's no reason that, in D&D, they should be a dorky-ass race which no one ever wants to play as player-characters. Goblins should be COOL!

How could goblins be cooler? Well, personally, I'm always inspired by Brian Froud, who (in addition to doing lots of books with titles like FAERIES) did the art design for the movies LABYRINTH and THE DARK CRYSTAL. His "faeries" and "goblins" are mysterious, earthy forest creatures, mostly hideous, sometimes comical, sometimes strangely beautiful. The sheer variety of his designs seems perfect for a chaotic, weird race... the archetypal goblins.

(For that matter, while I'm nitpicking, I've always felt that goblins should be Chaotic and orcs should be Lawful. Orcs are the ones who, in Tolkien, are the foot soldiers of evil pseudo-fascist armies... goblins have a long history before Tolkien, and they're more often depicted just living in the woods, kidnapping babies and screwing with people's heads...)

F'rexample, here's what I did with goblins in my current campaign world (*cough ahem*)...
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In my campaign, goblins fill the role of gypsies, traders, sorcerers and nature-loving forest-dwellers. As creatures of chaos, they have a -2 Wisdom, but they're immune to confusion- and insanity-causing effects (since they're sort of insane already). They're all Small creatures, but they have an incredibly variable appearance: most look like malformed humans, some have birdlike or animal-like heads, some have long elf-like ears, some have plants growing out of their head instead of hair, some look like fairies, etc. They breed profusely and live short lives. Occasionally, goblin babies are born which look just like human babies, leading to the "changeling" effect.

Hobgoblins are bigger than goblins, being about human-size. Their appearance isn't as variable (they look more like standard D&D hobgoblins, although occasionally you get a really weird-looking one with a pig's head or something), and they generally live in small settlements or roaming packs of warlike raiders, horse-breeders, hunters or (occasionally) sorcerers. They don't breed as quickly as goblins. Goblins stay away from hobgoblins, because hobgoblins are cannibalistic, and often eat their smaller cousins. Unfortunately, it's impossible for goblins to entirely stay away from hobgoblins, because occasionally a goblin baby grows much more rapidly than its fellows, and becomes a flesh-hungry hobgoblin (if it isn't killed by the goblin parents first). In short, goblins and hobgoblins are really the same species, and hobgoblins are a mutated form of goblins which develops in response to certain environmental pressures.

Bugbears are the biggest, toughest, evilest iteration of the "goblin phenotype." Occasionally hobgoblins give birth to babies which grow up even bigger and stronger and hungrier than normal hobgoblins. They're about 8 feet tall and have batlike faces.

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Well, that's my own version of the goblin races. I'd be interested in hearing other people's modified goblins.

Jason

I won't take this personally, I promise!

Goblinoids are a great alternative to a PC race ( Halflings or Gnomes ), but can get old as an adversarial category without an extremely creative DM. But no more boring than any other humanoid race.

I think goblinoids are quite interesting and have great potential as PC's. I just started an Eberron campaign set in Sharn and I told the players that they could play Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins or Kobolds in addition to the standard races. None of them took the option but if I'd been a player and I'd been offered that deal...I'd have played a Warforged.

But if my Warforged got killed then I'd have played a Kobold Sorcerer. And if he got killed (which I think would be reasonably likely quite frankly) then I'd have made a Goblin Rogue.

I've also run a couple of one-shot games for my regular group and at the NC Game Days called Orcz! where the PC's were all Orcs. They have been tremendous fun and I've gotten a lot of positive feedback on them.

I'm thinking about running Koboldz! at an upcoming Game Day or at GenCon.

ptolemy18 said:

Well, that's my own version of the goblin races. I'd be interested in hearing other people's modified goblins.

Click to expand...

Well, you asked for it .

I also went the approach of using goblinoids under the assumption of a single species, this time including orcs. The elves call them orcs, and some of the human peoples adapted this name, though most humans call them goblins. I also assume some variety within the species, with tribes of small worg-riding goblins and other tribes who build up kingdoms in the north. Bugbears are a rare case of large growth (mostly females, btw ), and this is modelled with racial levels. I don't use alignments, so this is no problem.

The reason for this arrangement? I wanted to have another player in the power balance IMC, who is at least as variable as humans and has the potential for political influence, similar but very different at the same time.

Goblin are cool. They are an excellent PC race and fit the archetype of the undesirable low-life parasites on the community (have a look at GURPS goblins for an idea on how urban goblins work). IMC Goblins are egglaying amphibians who start life as tadpoles (often in the city sewers or other ponds, non-urban goblins live in swamps and forest) and then after a year emerge in various forms. Goblins have no attachment as other races do and so rule-by-stength is the norm. However Gobs aren't strong and so backstabbing, deceipt and trickery are their tools. IMC nobody likes Goblins (even other goblins) but they are tolerated.

Bugbears imc aren't Goblinoids they are Neutrally aligned Apemen (taking the role of Trazan's Mangani) and often have the Brachiation feat (ie a climb speed). These Mangani live in isolated mountain rainforest and usually avoid contact but do make feirce opponents if provoked (and can contract a form of lycanthorpy transforming them into Wendigo)

Hobs replace Orcs IMC and vary in culture from savage wandering bands to highly organised military nations (Spartan) in all cases Habs/Orcs are Matriarchal with a split where females are generally Neutral (or Lawful) and males Chaotic

ptolemy18 said:

(For that matter, while I'm nitpicking, I've always felt that goblins should be Chaotic and orcs should be Lawful. Orcs are the ones who, in Tolkien, are the foot soldiers of evil pseudo-fascist armies... goblins have a long history before Tolkien, and they're more often depicted just living in the woods, kidnapping babies and screwing with people's heads...)

Click to expand...

Testify, brother! Speak the truth!

The single worst thing about 3e was that orcs became chaotic. Whoever thought of that needs to have people throw restaurant mints at his head.

Well, that's my own version of the goblin races. I'd be interested in hearing other people's modified goblins.

Click to expand...

The problem with current goblins is that the "fariy" aspect is hard to convey in table RPG unless the DM is really big into description. I mean, how would you truly convey the goblins in "Labryinth" in words other than "a bunch of goblins is here, they all look different"? It's just hard! Sure you could go more in depth, but now you're just reading a self-penned novel.

Honestly, if you ask me, 3e should have dumped gnomes and turned the gnome race into goblins, mechanically speaking. However, we're left with goblins as different looking kobolds, so we'll just have to make do.

Just my two cents.

I've seperated goblins and orcs in my own campaigns. Goblins are half-fey, which pushes them into a more chaotic and nature-oriented role. Orcs, meanwhile, are desert-dwelling, lawful warriors who are imminently practical and violent.

I've eliminated Orcs in my campaign and gone the Tolkien route. Goblins are "standard" goblins, hobgoblins are "bigger" goblins, bugbears are "even bigger" goblins and ogres are "whoa! look at THAT guy" goblins. They all live together in big, semi-organized, violent, communal societies. They are essentially the only evil near-human humanoid race (no gnolls, flinds, kobolds, etc.) and they occupy the "wilds" and compete with humanity and the demi-human races for land and resources.

I will agree that goblins are under-appreciated, and that few consider the complexities of their culture (very few at WotC), but the player's are as much at fault.

Ever tried to "charm" a goblin into helping the party?

Has any of your characters even bothered to tie up and interogate a goblin?

Why should the DM create a background for a character who is just going to be #3 on the Cleave cycle?

Of course, once the goblins take over THEN you'll try to understand them as individuals, but then it will be to late because... Oh wait, I don't want to spoil the surprise. Nevermind, forget I said anything.

...

Huh, I went with creatures (the Neth) that make peoples' skin crawl just to look at. I think that's just description emphasis though - people here forget the sort of horror that common folks have for murderers, spiders, snakes, etc ... and a DND goblin is something like all that rolled into one.

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What are they like? Who's been telling you that I'm one to ask? Don't know that I can put that in words for your ears anyway; you'd want a whitebeard and his books for a pretty telling.

Hungry they are, but not like you or I for wholesome food - something different. You see the rats after a bad winter, draggled, sick. They're like that, but hungry to see worse. And the way they look at you! As if they can see the bile in your mouth, know you can't stand sight or sound of them. It makes them hungry that way.

There's ugly, all kinds of ugly people. There's cruel like the young women or Three Stones magisters. But Neth, no, they put everything else in its place, and they come just as sure as the rotten fruit in the grass. They'll stick in you, they will.

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Reason
Principia Infecta