Rookie DM and crazy player char monster worries

Hi guys was wondering if you could give me some feedback on this question i have.

Im a long time RP'er with d20 but not in PnP (mostly games using the mechanics) and i am about to run my first PnP campaign. Im famailiar with the basic rules but i dont feel that confident with them so im going to take it slow.

I have a player who wants to play a doppleganger/shifter. We've researched it and the doppleganger has a +4 lvl adjustment. We decided that he would play a rogue character for the first 4 lvls then at 5th that character would die and a doppleganger (1st lvl rogue or whatever first class he takes) would take his place in the party.

He wants to continue into a shifter but will be sacrificing those 4 lvls permanently to equalise the character with the rest of the party (and im scared about having a lvl adjusted character whose out of whack with the others).

Our idea was to in the end (at 20th) play a dopple ganger with 10lvls of shifter and 6 of rogue (or whatever other base class he takes). My question is not about making the character "uber" but i was wondering if anyone has had experience with dopplegangers in thier campaigns before and if we are blundering towawrds some huge problem later that we havnt seen yet?

Id love to keep this character idea in the campaign because we have some great RP ideas for it but for the sake of balancing (and keeping the character in check with the rest of the party) i thought it wise to check it out before hand.

Sorry if this was posted in the wrong forum welcome t move it if needed.

Thanks a ton!!

Jurble
Newbie DM

P.S.

Sorry if this is posted multiple times had some problems with the browser

If the character goes shifter anyway, and you rewrite some of the flavor text to go with the PrC, why go with the Doppleganger stats anyway?

For example: the character is a doppleganger (human for stats), but he got lost in the last role he played (that of a somewhat inept rogue), forced into hiding his own identity even from himself to evade some ominous threat. After the experience, he is never the same old uncaring doppleganger again. He's made some friends, and done some things, and set himself on a course that is going to continue even after he rediscovers what he is. His powers have been transformed into those granted by the shifter PrC.

That way you don't suddenly have a new character that joins an existing group.

Just a thought.

If I'm correct then a doppleganger has 4 HD and a +4 level adjustment, making the ECL a total of 8. That means that you can take your first class level at ECL 9.

And if I'm correct again (sigh, it's no fun working without D&D books) then there is a savage progression (meaning some kind of class) of the doppleganger in Races of Destiny. Check it out

Your player may not like my recommendation, but as a first time DM, you should adhere to the K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple, Stupid) principle. Do only core book races and classes....at least until you feel completely comfortable into diving into the world with hundreds of feats, prestige classes, new races and all the other stuff.

DMing is much like driving a car, to use an analogy. You don't take someone learning to drive and put them in a Formula One race car to learn. You put them in a basic reliable vehicle and then as they gain experience with driving, you can put them into a fancier more powerful vehicle.

As a new DM, you will already be faced with the mastering the basics of D20 systems and learning to a storyteller, an actor, a judge, and all that is expected of a good DM. The last thing you need at this point is to add complexity of adding monstrous races, choosing from hundreds of prestige classes and adding new elements to your game.

I would recommend that you talk to your player and tell him he can have his doppelganger whatever in the next campaign, but for this one, you want to keep it basic while you gain mastery of being a good DM.

BlackMoria said:

Your player may not like my recommendation, but as a first time DM, you should adhere to the K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple, Stupid) principle. Do only core book races and classes....at least until you feel completely comfortable into diving into the world with hundreds of feats, prestige classes, new races and all the other stuff.

DMing is much like driving a car, to use an analogy. You don't take someone learning to drive and put them in a Formula One race car to learn. You put them in a basic reliable vehicle and then as they gain experience with driving, you can put them into a fancier more powerful vehicle.

As a new DM, you will already be faced with the mastering the basics of D20 systems and learning to a storyteller, an actor, a judge, and all that is expected of a good DM. The last thing you need at this point is to add complexity of adding monstrous races, choosing from hundreds of prestige classes and adding new elements to your game.

I would recommend that you talk to your player and tell him he can have his doppelganger whatever in the next campaign, but for this one, you want to keep it basic while you gain mastery of being a good DM.

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Ditto here. Trust me. I know from experience. Stick to the core stuff for your first trips into the world of the DM. You'll regret it later if you don't and it is distinctly possible that DMing will leave a bad taste in your mouth, even though it isn't necessary.

A standard, 4 HD, non-advanced doppelganger with no class levels is ECL 8. Your player may find that it takes quite a while to get anywhere with that charcter and may well feel overshadowed by other pcs. Trust me on this; I have an epic doppelganger pc in my campaign and he's clearly the least survivable pc (due to hps).

BlackMoria said:

Your player may not like my recommendation, but as a first time DM, you should adhere to the K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple, Stupid) principle. Do only core book races and classes....at least until you feel completely comfortable into diving into the world with hundreds of feats, prestige classes, new races and all the other stuff.

DMing is much like driving a car, to use an analogy. You don't take someone learning to drive and put them in a Formula One race car to learn. You put them in a basic reliable vehicle and then as they gain experience with driving, you can put them into a fancier more powerful vehicle.

As a new DM, you will already be faced with the mastering the basics of D20 systems and learning to a storyteller, an actor, a judge, and all that is expected of a good DM. The last thing you need at this point is to add complexity of adding monstrous races, choosing from hundreds of prestige classes and adding new elements to your game.

I would recommend that you talk to your player and tell him he can have his doppelganger whatever in the next campaign, but for this one, you want to keep it basic while you gain mastery of being a good DM.

Click to expand...

I will emphatically third that. Learn the mechanics of PnP DMing before broadening your horizons. The less time you spend looking stuff up the better (and smoother) your game will run.

BlackMoria said:

Your player may not like my recommendation, but as a first time DM, you should adhere to the K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple, Stupid) principle. Do only core book races and classes....at least until you feel completely comfortable into diving into the world with hundreds of feats, prestige classes, new races and all the other stuff.

Click to expand...

I just had to throw my me too on this pile of growing dittos. BlackMoria makes a good point and is probably worth listening too. You mentioned in your initial post that you wanted to start slow, the best way to do that is start with the core books and work from there. The more oddities, rule variants you work in can just make things more difficult.

After you get a few games as a DM under your belt then you could look at branching off and getting a little wilder and crazier with what you allow. As long as everyone is up for that type of game then you should have a great time.

I like the idea of making him a Doppleganger-lite, using the Shifter prestige class (or one just like it, with different prerequisites). That way, you can play him gaining levels in that class as gradually rediscovering his old abilities.

I've run a game with a PC much like this, and it allowed us to keep all the flavor without having to try to balance a "by the book" monster PC.

3.0 shifters are very complex to DM because they can change into so many different things with different mechanical effects for each one.

I would advise against it because they make the DM job so much more difficult in keeping track of the PC's capabilities.

Speaking as a DM who ran a game with a shifter in it.