When to use Luck Points, Action Points, Hero Points

Quasqueton · Mar 2, 2005

My game uses Luck Points. PCs (and only PCs) get one LP at character creation, and then one at each level up. They do not regenerate. Once used, the Player hands me back the poker chip. Using a LP lets the Player reroll one die.

I like this house rule. My Players like this house rule. It seems to work well. But something came up last game session that pointed out a potential problem.

Should a Player find out the result of the die roll before deciding to cash in a LP? For instance, rolling a 1 on a save is obviously a bad result. But there are different degrees of "bad". Failing a save versus doom is not as bad as failing a save vs. hold person is not as bad as failing a save vs. phantasmal killer is not as bad as failing a save vs. disentigrate, etc.

And what if revealing the spell or effect, to let the Player decide whether to use LP or not, also reveals a secret ("He can cast a 7th-level spell?!").

And rolling saves against spells is not the only thing that can open this can of worms. "Holy crap, that's Con poison?!" "He does 22 points of damage with a grapple check?!" Etc.

Should a DM using Luck Points, Action Points, Hero Points, whatever, tell what the results are of a failed roll or make the Player decide without knowledge of how bad the result is? I mean, one way you can have Players "wasting" LP on nuisance problems, and you can have them decline a new roll on save-or-die situations.

Should a DM give a hint, "You *really* should consider using a LP for this."?

Quasqueton

TheAuldGrump · Mar 2, 2005

I would let him use it after failing the save, but before damage is rolled.

I would also give them to the BBEG, but never minions.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Or only allow them to be used when the failed roll means death, in which case they get to see if they would be killed before using the LP.

RSKennan · Mar 2, 2005

Quasqueton said:
My game uses Luck Points. PCs (and only PCs) get one LP at character creation, and then one at each level up. They do not regenerate. Once used, the Player hands me back the poker chip. Using a LP lets the Player reroll one die.

I like this house rule. My Players like this house rule. It seems to work well. But something came up last game session that pointed out a potential problem.

Should a Player find out the result of the die roll before deciding to cash in a LP? For instance, rolling a 1 on a save is obviously a bad result. But there are different degrees of "bad". Failing a save versus doom is not as bad as failing a save vs. hold person is not as bad as failing a save vs. phantasmal killer is not as bad as failing a save vs. disentigrate, etc.

And what if revealing the spell or effect, to let the Player decide whether to use LP or not, also reveals a secret ("He can cast a 7th-level spell?!").

And rolling saves against spells is not the only thing that can open this can of worms. "Holy crap, that's Con poison?!" "He does 22 points of damage with a grapple check?!" Etc.

Should a DM using Luck Points, Action Points, Hero Points, whatever, tell what the results are of a failed roll or make the Player decide without knowledge of how bad the result is? I mean, one way you can have Players "wasting" LP on nuisance problems, and you can have them decline a new roll on save-or-die situations.

Should a DM give a hint, "You *really* should consider using a LP for this."?

Quasqueton

I think a simple "this is what would have happened to you:" sans machanical explanation would serve. You could also rule that a character automatically burns a luck point when he would be killed, lose a level, be petrified, or whatever.

Munin · Mar 2, 2005

I use fate chips, but much more frequently than you do.
Each player starts out with one per session and is awarded one every time they roll a 20. Additionally, they get one every time they do something extra cool or roleplay in an exceptional manner.

They can use them for just about anything, in fact, creative uses for one's fate chips is encouraged. The one caveat is that major npcs also get fate chips. I find that it is a nice way to avoid one shot/one kill situations. On the other hand, I am much more ruthless as a DM when I allow fate chips in play.

To answer your question, I allow chips to be spent after damage has been dealt, but before the next pc/npc takes his turn.

Vrecknidj · Mar 2, 2005

I use Hero Points (similar to what you're doing, without chips). Anyway, players have quite a few of them, and I reward them at level up (5 per level until 12th level, then 9 per level). I give so many because the players also get cards, and the cards cost so many hero points to use. They can use these points to play the cards, or to add a d6 to their d20 roll.

Generally, when it comes to re-rolling, this is the way it goes.

Player: Dang, I rolled a 6. Could a 12 hit?
DM: Sure, if you want to use a Hero Point, go ahead.

or

Player: Dang, I rolled a 13, could a 19 succeed?
DM: Nope, you need a 20, sorry, save your point.

or

DM: You just got hit with a spell effect, roll a save.
Player: I rolled an 8.
DM: Well, you failed. A hero point might help, if you roll well. But, if you fail this save, you won't be entirely out of the fight, so it's up to you.

Just enough information to frustrate the player a little, but also enough to prevent the player from having nothing to base his decision on.

So, in the situation you described, I might pass the player a note with some descriptive text regarding the spell on it. This would prevent others from knowing too much, and would only give the player just enough information so there's still a risk in using that valuable luck point.

Dave

Mallus · Mar 2, 2005

I use a hero point system. PC's get 1 per level and reward for doing heroic/amusing things during the course of play.

Like d20 Modern, they add 1d6 to any roll (except for HP, of course). You decide to use them after your initial roll (they're meant to useful tools, not some kind of guessing game). You can use as many as you have to boost a single roll.

You can also ask to use them in a more general way, to 'creatively edit' a scene during play, or to recast a used spell, etc. If you want something other than the +1d6 to a roll, the actual effect is up to me, but it will be beneficial...

TerraDave · Mar 2, 2005

RSKennan said:
I think a simple "this is what would have happened to you:" sans machanical explanation would serve. You could also rule that a character automatically burns a luck point when he would be killed, lose a level, be petrified, or whatever.

I give out a "fudge" each level, basically this is how it works

But should BBEG also get this--"your super maxed out critical does 150 hps of damage, and the lich just shrugs it off..." not sure what the reaction would be

MoogleEmpMog · Mar 2, 2005

In my current campaign, I gave out 5 action points to start (3rd level characters). Any time a player wishes to use an action point, he can give me a compelling description (or his best approximation thereof) of how he's using it, and if I judge the effort was sufficient, he gets it back.

Major baddies also get (and use) action points in the same way.

Jdvn1 · Mar 2, 2005

Would you let them trade poker chips? Like, use them for someone else in exchange for a favor? Or just use them for someone else?

Olgar Shiverstone · Mar 3, 2005

I use hero points -- one per level. They can be burned to guarantee success on one roll (treat as Natural 20) or to guarantee failure of an opponent's roll (treat as natural 1) -- but must be spent before the dice are rolled. They can also be used to stabilize a dying character.

They get used for all sorts of things: attacks, saves, skill checks, auto-crits, etc. One player burned three at once to maximize the damage on a crit and take down a BBEG.

Edit: I don't give hints about when they should be used -- they do a fine job of figuring it out all on their own. "When the chips are down, and the breaks are beating the boys ..."